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No for “Agreement” the Lebanese way

Posted by Rodge

First of all, I would like to thak N10452 for giving me and others the chance to post here, and I hope we will not disappoint him or any of the Guys and Ladies posting and commenting on this Blog.

I also thank you everyone for accepting me and trading the best ideas and comments, hoping you will like the issues I will talk about.

For my first post, I’ve chosen to write briefly about a topic that i’m sure many of you will agree with me.

It’s about “Agreement”, which is known in Lebanese terms as “La ghaleb wa la maghloub”, and in my opinion it’s more a compromise than an agreement.

Frankly I think the worst thing our politicians in Lebanon can do is to follow this concept or principle, because it will lead only to freezing everything in this country, from the timy detail to the most important isues, why? because everybody will still be waiting for an “agreement” based on that concept.

In our recent history, we saw that this concept has done nothing but problems and disasters for the future.

We waited 6 months to elect a President by “agreement”

we also waited about 2 months to form the Government, and one additional month to agree on its statement (bayen wizari)

and now, the appointments in some security posts are still waiting for an “agreement”, which could not come in the near future, while Lebanon needs security stability at the moment more than ever.

So in conclusion, I can say i’m totally against this concept, I rather support more firmness in the Government and Presidency decisions, and that’s why I prefer to have a Governement including one side only, a Government of majority, whatever this majority is, which will allow its members to take firm decisions without any delay.

Don’t tell me this is Lebanon, it wasn’t like that from 1990 till 2005, under the Syrian influence, where Governments used to take decisions without any “agreement”, and although I’m against most of those decisions, but i’m talking here about a process. Let the majority rule, while the minority should wait for their chance,

This is Democracy. I don’t want any more “la ghaleb wa la maghloub” thing, it only contibutes in deteriorating the situation and making Lebanon worse.


Filed under: Lebanon, Political
Posted by Rodge on 08.20.08 @ 3:43 am |

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42 Comments. Add your own...

  • 1. Ra'fat | August 20th, 2008 at 4:55 am

    Very well said.

  • 2. Michele | August 20th, 2008 at 7:23 am

    Rodge it’s great to read u n I totally agree wz u.

    What happened to the democracy???

    Anyway looking forward to reading more from u…

  • 3. Rodge | August 20th, 2008 at 7:44 am

    Ra’fat & Michele,

    Thanks, it’s good to receive such feedbacks.

  • 4. SamaLibnan | August 20th, 2008 at 8:04 am

    As always enjoy the site. good work all.

    As to the post, it is always important to keep things in perspective and do not deal based on two standards. The lebanese country was built on the notion of consensus amongst nations, ergo, democracy is only applicable in its modern sense, i.e. liberty and individual freedom. Democracy being the rule of majority cannot be applicable in a unitary state like lebanon guys. You cannot request democracy now and refuse it when we are not a majority. I understand that the majority has acted in full respect of the rule of democracy thus far and i applaud them for this. We can understand their leniency however when we see that our lost battles have been of little significance.
    What will we say when Hiz becomes a demographic majority in this country? will you still want a majority? this is inevitable seeing their demographic structure as opposed to that of the rest of the lebanese.
    There is nothing wrong with the rule of consensus (what Rodge calls “agreement”), the moral is in the application: in a federated or decentralized state where the rule of law prevails, there is no harm in practicing consensus regime; see Switzerland.
    The only alternative, is civil war and internal fighting.

  • 5. Mickel | August 20th, 2008 at 8:48 am

    Rodge

    Your first post couldn’t have been any better.

    It’s like you were reading my mind bro. I completely agree with you on this issue. And this whole ‘la ghaleb wala maghloub’ idea really frustrates me.

    Good luck. Great post.

  • 6. Ado | August 20th, 2008 at 9:44 am

    Rodge,
    For the first time i TOTALLY agree with you,and i think the main problem that stops applying democracy is the confessionalisme,we need to get rid of it,and start thinking in building a democratic state….

  • 7. Ziad | August 20th, 2008 at 10:01 am

    I agree… 100%.

  • 8. Fuziyad | August 20th, 2008 at 10:29 am

    Someone has to disagree somewhere right??

    Well I think the idea of la ghaleb w l maghloub is abusrd but its adoption last 3 yrs is due to one particular thing and we are looking at the problem from the wrong angle.

    Last 3 yrs the political power deriving from a parliamentary majority was with one side while the others held the guns and the explosives…this is why some tawafok had to be found and no decisions could have been taken…and at the end, despite one side was the majority and despite the la ghaleb wl maghloub propaganda we all know well there was a ghaleb and a maghloub, the ghaleb was the gun and the maghloub was the democracy and the rule of law.

    All the thugs that have been praising the tawafok last 3 yrs will definitely drop the idea if they win the election in 2009 but if m14 wins we will have to get on with tawafok again, starting with the election on the snake of the snakes istiz nabih berrrrééé. Not because the lebanese political system is stuck in la ghaleb wla maghloub but because hizb and amal have weapons and would burn the country if their wishes were not respected…

  • 9. Mickel | August 20th, 2008 at 10:33 am

    Agreed Fuziyad

  • 10. Rodge | August 20th, 2008 at 10:42 am

    Fuziyad,

    I shall say u’re right, but this “la ghaleb wla maghloub” concept has been ruling Lebanon since the independence, where there were no guns with one side without the others.
    I heard a lot say that Lebanon is forced to have “tawafouk” in arabic: لبنان محكوم بالتوافق but I don’t understand what are the taboos for not changing that. If they will say we’ll have war, I will day we already had many wars, we are living in wars since 65 years now, every 10 or 15 years we have trouble or war or violence.
    We need Ghaleb and maghloub for real.

  • 11. THERESINIA | August 20th, 2008 at 10:56 am

    The General of Rabiyeh stayed 15 years in France and did not learn DEMOCRACY… when would you expect him to learn???

    One day he told my father: “If the government doesn’t get the confidence of the people, change the PEOPLE”…

    This is the kind of things he believes! Any difference with Hitler? They have a lot in common including Mental INSANITY….

  • 12. Rodge | August 20th, 2008 at 11:07 am

    General of Rabieh never stops lying,

    The last one showed how much he ignored history, since he brought a lie about Albert Moukhaiber presiding CoM meetings back in the 70s, and in a few hours his lie was disclosed as usual.
    He tought he could speak of the death (Saeb Salam), but he forgot his son Tamam is still alive and is a Minister now. ha ha ha ha.

    Now he’s asking for a Deputy PM power. It’s obvious, since his man Abou Jamra is in the position, if any other person was there he will never think of it.
    This country is so politicalized
    kolloun youghanni 3ala laylah

  • 13. Rima | August 20th, 2008 at 11:14 am

    Hi theresina

    Interesting insights from your dad…I wish he would write all what he knows about and heard from Aoun…just for the history…

    I always hated Aoun’s speeches back in the old days of war When everyone was rushing to support and cheer for him. These people who went up there to Baabda are as guilty as him.If no one agreed with him he would not do what he did, or at least he wouldn’t have the public support.Same applies today.

    I perfectly share your frustration with Aoun…you don’t learn democracy, it is a state of mind …

  • 14. Rima | August 20th, 2008 at 11:18 am

    Rodge
    I agree with you this formula of la ghaleb wala maghloub is sina3a libneniyeh…in fact democracy and theocracy cannot live together…it is like water and fire…
    theocracy and dictatorship are not compatible with democracy…let’s admit we are maghloubiin

  • 15. THERESINIA | August 20th, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    Dear Rodge,

    Absolutely. He is a great LIAR… and what he says is NOT what he thinks, and what he does is not what he says…

    Just a small example: he said “I am against feodalism (2qta3yieh)”… but since he has no sons, he brings his SON-IN-LAW …definitely not for the intelligence of (IM)BASSIL…

    He says I am against corruption (Min 2ayna laka haza?”) and look at the New Millionnaires in the Tayyar …Look at HIM !!! Where is the money which is in the account of his wife? and why in the account of his wife??? Could you imagine something like this happening in Europe? or in any civilized country???

    Dear RIMA,

    Yes, I will put down by writing all the treasons made by this man… our CHILDREN must learn one day how christians have been abused by a Most DECEITFUL and CHEATING General of Rabiyeh.

  • 16. Omega | August 20th, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    theresina
    my dad told me that aoun once told him that ur dad and ja3ja3 are bad ppl and they are getting paid by hariri to attack aoun and therefore weaken the christians.
    also aoun told my dad once that theresina betle2 haki kteer.
    to u and to ur dad he is a cheat. but to the majority of the christians he is the hero. ja3ja3 and all the mwazfeen of hariri do not have the support of the majority of christians while aoun does. so live with it and te2i mnel aher ya theresina.

  • 17. Omega | August 20th, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    rodge
    u accuse aoun of lying just because he is aoun and u hate him. if aoun said that the laban is white u say no , laban is black. for f*ck sake ur games sarou makshoofeen and everyone erfen min bayekhetkon w ellet nodejkon.
    for ur information, what aoun said about the neyib ra2ees majles el wozara incidents that happened in the past is not a lie. if u don’t believe it then all what u have to do is read a bit more about what happened in the past rather than relying on tammam’s story. tammam has his reasons for denying the story . his reasons are simply he doesn’t want salahiyyat prime minister the sunni to go to orthodox.
    next time 3raf what u are saying before u accuse anyone of being a liar.
    now u are reminding me of theresina who every day has a dream that aoun told her father something.
    theresina bta3erfi ba7r el mayyit? hayda bayyi atalou .

  • 18. Fuziyad | August 20th, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    Omega. The orthodox community has a certain history in politics and those who really represented it were educated and sophisticated politicians like Boutros, Tueni, or Moukheiber or powerful feudal chiefs like Murr or even Issam Fares.

    The real tehmeesh of the orthodox community if any is having given the title of deputy PM to someone who is neither powerful nor educated like Mr abou fa7mé…This title shoudl have gone to murr or mitri who wouldn’t need an office inside the serail to be empowered…

  • 19. Rima | August 20th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Anyway shou baddou HA bil salafieh? shou rayeh ybi33 maii bi haret el sikayyin… He wants to sell them more advanced terrorist methods?

    At least the moderate sunnis will try to drag the salafis away from tatarouff.

  • 20. Tarek | August 20th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    il tawafo2 was a mistake, I agree Rodge. M14 personnel should have said if from the beginning, we will not share power and yes we want to have a monopoly and that is a right given by the constitution and that’s how democracy is run. They have to add that we never saw “tawafo2″ before from your behalf so why we should grant it to you?? However now it’s too late to fix what was broken …

  • 21. Rima | August 20th, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    Tarek

    Spot on…if it is about tawafouk…I wonder why do we need elections anyway?

  • 22. Michele | August 20th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    Well guys we do agree though on 1 thing wz AOUN!

    He did say the Lebanese people are Al Shaab el Ghashim n OMEGA is the living proof.

    See ya Omega we do agree on things that Aoun says ;)

    Btw u r a typical Orange, what makes u think that Theresina is Geagea follower? Is it so hard for ur emptied-brain to believe that there are out there people who follow causes n not people?

  • 23. Rodge | August 20th, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    I bet this Omega is the same Stallion or Lebnene, since he has the same unefficient tongue which only could pronouce 3 letters of BLA and repeating them.

    I already replied the way you deserve ya Omega in the previous post, and I don’t want to fall more than that in your game, but I wish you had commented on the post topic first.
    And for the history u’re talking about, u’re right, I didn’t read the history Aoun is teaching you, because History is usually about facts not lies.

    Oh by the way, rou7 tahhir…

  • 24. Rima | August 20th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    N can you please delete my posts with the moderator? I will repeat my idea again in English

    I don’t undesrtand the Orangists’ enthusiasm for the salayieet of the Orthodoc deputy of the prime minister…What about the salahiyet of the deputy of the president of the Parliament?

    Shou haydak ibn el sitt we hayda ibn el jereyeh or just because Berri is your friend you don’t want to mess with him?

  • 25. N10452 | August 20th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    Omega,
    Ana cheyif lsenak wou temmak li baddoun totheer wou tondeef ..

    If you cant run a civilized debate and post like normal human beings do, your posts will be deleted.

    feel free to critisize whomever you want, just stay polite and show us educated posts.

    Thank you.

  • 26. N10452 | August 20th, 2008 at 4:30 pm

    As for the post,
    first of all u r most welcome Rodge …

    I agree with your post and i’ve expressed that many times, there is no point of making compromises specially when it comes to confronting a group like HA … However, i prefer letting M14 do compromises than take major decisions they are unable of keeping like they did before the Beirut invasion ..

    Iza mannak 2ad 2ararak, ma tekhdo achraf ..

  • 27. Rodge | August 20th, 2008 at 5:12 pm

    u’re right N,

    and there is a current example of how a majority should work. In pakistan, they had almost the same situation we had after Hariri’s death, since after Butto’s assassination, the majority which ruled as a result of elections dealt very well to force President Musharraf to resign. They were so effectivem and now thye have the Government and the Presidency.
    Of course there is a difference, they don’t have Hizb, neither Syria or Israel, and above all they don’t have Aoun.
    March 14 needs to act the same the Pakistanis did, hoping thye can after the next elections.

  • 28. Rima | August 20th, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    Rodge

    I am very suspicious about the next elections. in light of their terrorist behaviour, I can’t see how we can have free elections. Secondly, if they loose do you think will happen?

  • 29. Rodge | August 20th, 2008 at 6:06 pm

    Rima,

    I share the same feeling, and I beleive the next summer will be very hot in Lebanon.
    I’m not seeing any trrue agreement between the different parties, just lies to pass the current period, and the way I see it whether from Israel or Hizb, maybe a military development will ocuur in the next period, and it seems both parties want that to settle scores.
    In my opinion, it will depend mostly on the Israeli elections, and the political situation inside Israel. If a strong PM will be in post, he or she (Livny) will have to launch a strike on Hizb or Iran, and in both cases we’ll pay the price in Lebanon.

  • 30. Darko | August 20th, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    Well during the period between 1990-2005, there was no real opposition and majority was an overwhelming one supported by the syrians, and even with this overwhelming majority there was always need for as u put it “Agreements”, ever heard of the “Troyka”.
    You should also know that Lebanon is not the only country run through “Agreements”, even in France, politicians from the left and the right have to reach an agreement on every resolution or else the resolution will be blocked.
    As for the election of president, i believe that the real problem is that it’s the parliament who elects that president and not the people, in a perfect Lebanon, the lebanese president should be elected from the people and he, only he, should have the right to choose a PM. But that will never happen because of the Lebanese sectarian mentality

  • 31. Delta | August 20th, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    love ur post buddy god bless u inta w N wkezballa to keep this blog going

    to N Rodge and all the people that post here u guys make us still believe that there is lebanese in lebanon

    i love u guys

    Omega man try to learn rather than kicking and fighting for nothing if u are an FPMr or not u have to agree with the truth sometimes dont u think so ?

  • 32. THERESINIA | August 20th, 2008 at 8:26 pm

    Dear OMEGA,

    Instead of criticizing my DAD, why don’t you answer the questions about the General of Rabyieh ??? About his corruption ??? About HIM creating HATRED ??? About becoming a Syrian BROTHER, and an Iranian Puppet, and insulting the West,… etc…Do you approve all this???

    Try to answer, and provide me with honest answers…

  • 33. THERESINIA | August 20th, 2008 at 8:30 pm

    On ANOTHER subject EXTREMELY IMPORTANT:

    Today the Egyptian order of Medical Doctors have decreted that two people of different religions CANNOT have BLOOD TRANSFUSION from one to another…

    I have NO COMMENTS on that ….

  • 34. THERESINIA | August 20th, 2008 at 8:32 pm

    Dear OMEGA,

    Oh! I forgot one thing:

    HITLER also had 60 millions followers…

  • 35. paul | August 20th, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    a promising beginning Rodge, this agreement policy is for most lebanese a normality,we can get out from this impass only if we criticize it and fight it.
    great post.

  • 36. Mickel | August 20th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    THERESINIA

    I think that AOUN is just like HITLER, MUSSOLINI, STALIN… A few years from now, his followers will realize that he was bad for their country and that they shouldn’t have followed him.

  • 37. Omega | August 21st, 2008 at 12:24 am

    oh theresina by the way. ur dad’s imagination was mixed with a bit of money with the smell of hariri’s pocket in them.

  • 38. Michele | August 21st, 2008 at 6:46 am

    Theresina, not only blood transfusion and organ donnation.

    Omega sweetie why don’t u go n post at the Orange forum if u think we r kids? Or na7na ktir ahrinnak ma fik tetrekna?? ;)

    Btw, is ur dad also getting paid from the “mal al nazif”? or Aoun wants to keep it all for himself?? hé hé hé

  • 39. THERESINIA | August 21st, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    OMEGA,

    My DAD died some years ago. He was one of the CLOSEST persons to AOUN, when AOUN was still an honest man.

    End of the strory.

  • 40. g_cedar | August 21st, 2008 at 10:41 pm

    Rodge,

    This concept of ‘compromise’ is an excuse to keep the status quo, a rotten system kept afloat by rotten leaders and politicians.

  • 41. Rima | August 22nd, 2008 at 12:08 am

    Theresina

    May his soul RIP. I am really serious about you writing facts regarding this Aoun…and maybe publish it…

  • 42. nora | August 27th, 2008 at 10:14 am

    great post indeed!
    best sentence was said by N tho: iza mannak ad ararak ma tekhdo ashraf…



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