Comments on: Letter to an aounist

By: othello

othello — Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:59:40 +0000

I figured it out without the clarification…same style and more importantly same blindness as to facts and same determination to live in total denial of reality…

1- you can rest your case anytime but in this particular setup, you may not my friend.

Why? because you have totally side tracked the entire post….if you re hoping I will give up and bail out, you are mistaken…if you hope you can bore me to death with these tricks, again, you are mistaken…

2- Do you really read what I post or you just skimmed through??????

I proved to you that:

a- you are INCAPABLE of using google efficiently, while t the same time you rely on it for information.

b- I proved beyond doubt that you are TOTALLY IGNORANT of your party’s history s well s its founder’s past, yet you profess to come and lecture me about the LF history???

c- What sources do you speak about???

the IRC??? Amnesty International????

are you for real mate???

are you sure you did not miss out taking your morning pills???

You listed a series of international bodies and organizations, yet you FAILED TO ASSOCIATE each of these NGOs to the claims you listed in previous post…all you did was post the definition/statement of purpose of each of those organizations…

so you claim to tell me the IRC stated that geagea lead the Sabra and Chatilla massacres???

or that Amnesty International spoke about the Ehden Massacre???

you quote wikipedia as if quoting the Bible…

ya habibi Wikipedia is a resource that can be EDITED ONLINE BY ANYONE to SAY ANYTHING in case you do not know (and I am positive you don’t even have a clue)

All I can tell you is get a life dude…wake up and smell the roses before you start smelling something totally different but then it would be too late for you.

cheers

By: Logical Person

Logical Person — Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:12:03 +0000

Othello, I read the French version of Menargue’s book. Wikipedia controls all article edits using a program called Wikiscanner. Time magazine dedicated an article two months ago to Wikipedia praising it for its “reliability” and its “growing popularity”. The Harvard Crimson newspaper reported that some of the professors at Havard University include wikipedia as sources. Nice try, sucker. Bye

By: Logical Person

Logical Person — Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:53:56 +0000

Logical Person=Independent

By: Logical Person

Logical Person — Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:53:01 +0000

Othello, Seeing that you have sort of doubted only ONE of the sources that I have cited, then this must imply that you have been convinced that my sources are way more credible than your politically-affiliated, one-sided, biased sources.

Geagea led operations on behalf of Gemayel until he took command of the LF in 1986 (source: Wikipedia) I do not see your point. This still means he participated in the massacres I have cited.

Finally, now we are talking. Let your kid read this. I’m sure he will draw the same conclusions as yours since you have the same reasoning power.

I rest my case. I have given up on you. You are pitifully stubborn. However, if you are ever in need, I will gladly pay for your tuition fee for the university courses I told you about. It was really fun talking to a child. lol. See you in another post.

By: othello

othello — Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:46:26 +0000

For fun, I decided to google Menargues…heres one of the results I got about the book

Les Secrets de la guerre du Liban : Du coup d’état de Béchir Gémayel aux massacres des camps palestiniens
de Alain Ménargues
Langue : Français Éditeur : Albin Michel (5 mai 2004)
Collection : Histoire
Format : Broché - 554 pages
ISBN : 2226121277
Dimensions (en cm) : 16 x 4 x 24

anyways, what you should have found out, even if you googled it without reading the book, is that the book stops way before 1986…in fact from 1981 to 1984…so I still fail to see how you are using it to support your arguments that geagea is a criminal etc etc etc…

but then why the heck am I bothering anyways…after all I am just a kid no??? hehehehehehehhee

wait until my elder son hears this…he will burst out laughing…anyways it will remain here for posterity

woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

By: othello

othello — Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:38:00 +0000

Oh by the way, my dear (In)dependent :

The Alain Menargues book you speak about…there were 2 versions: one in arabic and one in french…

there is a lot of controversy surrounding the arabisation of this book since the parts regarding the general’s affiliation to the Christian militias were shadowed on purpose…I believe there is even a lawsuit somewhere that the original author deposed against the translator…so if you were quoting the arabic version and relying on it for your knowledge, I would ask you to re-check your sources thats assuming you really read the book and not googled it (since it has been proven that your googling skills need a lot of improvement)

regarding your criticism of the sources I sited, again you seem to rely heavily on google and wikipedia…

for your info, wikipedia can be edited online by whoever wishes…so I would not build much on it if I were you since s we have seen in the last couple of months, some people are so good at faking facts

and a final note: when a book is published, if its contents are controversial or defamatory, the author is usually sued in court by whoever considers himself a victim…and to this date, no one has sued any of the authors I sited, wheread Fisk and Hirsh are very very controversial authors as per their own peers…

Regarding LBC and Al Nahar…you see some stations are very careful as to their reputation world wide and make everything possible to ensure their credibility is not jeopardized…which is not usually the case with OTV, Al Manar or Al Akhbar who, in the last couple of months, have shown the entire world the true meaning of tabloid trash…

again, the ostrich tactic is not a very healthy one…for by denying the existence of an event you do not eradicate it nor do you simply make it inexistent…what you get is basically what you are showing the entire world on a public forum: a “maskhra” and you make yourself the joke of the week

thanks for the late night laughs amigo…

keep coming from time to time, ma to2ta3na…ma elna ghayrak

By: Othello

Othello — Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:23:18 +0000

N10452

3ifo man…when a guy like this calls me a kid, he is insulting himself rather than me…why? quite simply because a when a simple kid is able to counter his so called arguments, it tells you that despite his alleged age, he has no knowledge

Independent,

Re read your post habibi…

1- the so called facts you posted actually go to substantiate my claims that the atrocities people accuse DSG were committed way before he took over the LF…in fact they were committed by the very man your general relied on to save his family in October 1990. you listed a list of events that took place mostly BEFORE 1986 (date at which DSG took over the LF from Elie Hobeika).

2- Fayez Azzi, my dear Einstein, was an adviser to your general for a long period of time which spanned his last 3 years in Lebanon as well as some of his years in France…

also in case my dear Mr Google do not know, Mr Fayez Azzi is also a reputed member of the Baath party…yes the same party that is currently governing syria through the Assad family…

Moreover, Fayez Azzi was the link between Hafez al Assad and Michel Aoun…along with Mou7sen Dalloul and other similar persons…those were the days aoun was caressing Syria presenting himself as a successor to Amine Gemayel for the presidency…

While you are at it, look up a book called “wayabka al jaysh howa al 7al” written by Fou2d Aoun, an officer of the Lebanese Army…this officer ws highly rewarded by your general for the book…and the said book outlined the exact details of a major takeover of power in Lebanon by the army leading to a military govt.

So do not superimpose your ignorance onto others and accuse them of childish behavior, hayda wa7ad.

tnayn, for a person so devoutly following the general, I m surprised you are ignorant of his past…

tleti, for someone who relies heavily on google, I am surprised you do not even know how to use the tool…a simple serch for Fayez+Azzi returned more than 10 pages of hits… ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Fayez%2Bazzi&btnG=Search ) to save you having to search all over again.

I will quote the very first hit about him: http://www.alternative-online.org/CivilWar.htm

“Fayez Azzi, a lawyer who joined the Arab Baath Socialist Party in his youth but left it later and became one of former Army Commander General Michel Aoun’s advisors during Aoun’s tenure as head of the interim military government between 1988 and 1990, said that progressive platforms in the Arab world could be hardly advanced.”

so you see my dear “grandpa”…sometimes knowledge is not determined by age…but rather by a state of mind…anyways I will not dive into a philosophical debate over knowledge since I would be t a great advantage over you in this subject and I am not one to fight uneven battles

yalla go learn some more how to use your PC and then come and lets discuss…

By: N10452

N10452 — Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:50:41 +0000

Independant,
Try to learn some respect when replying .. and remember this is an LF blog, not a place to insult Bashir …

Fa ya kbeer inta ( since we are all kids to u), i appreciate ur comments but stay polite and if anyone is impolite to you, report it.

Cheers.

By: Independent

Independent — Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:24:37 +0000

Othello, oh no, believe me; I won’t be needing any page numbers from any of the books you have mentioned. The authors you have cited are sufficient enough to confirm the bias of your sources. Let’s take a look at them:
• Paul Andari: one of Geagea’s top-ranking lieutenants during the civil war (source: lebaneseforces.org)
• Joseph Abou Khalil: former editor-in-chief of Phalangist-affiliated Al-Aamal newspaper; former high-ranking member of the Kataeb Party under the command of Bashir Gemayel (source: Alain Menargues, “Les Secrets de la Guerre du Liban”)
• LBC: TV Station founded by the LF. According to Wikipedia: “It was originally the brainchild of Bashir Gemayel”.
• An-Nahar: pro-March 14th newspaper.
Concerning Joseph Chartouni and Fayez Azzi, I could not find anything pertaining to these names when I typed them in on Google. This implies that these authors are unknown. They are nobody.
Now let us juxtapose your very credible sources against the sources I have mentioned in my comments:
• Robert Fisk: Recipient of Amnesty International UK Press Awards in 1998, 7 times Recipient of British Press Awards’ International Journalist of the year; described by the New York Times as “probably the most famous foreign correspondent”; Received numerous honorary doctorates by various universities, including AUB for his “journalistic objectivity”; one of only two foreign correspondents who remained in Lebanon throughout the civil war (source: Wikipedia)
• Amnesty International: International non-governmental organization which defines its mission as “to undertake research and action focused on preventing and ending grave abuses of the rights to physical and mental integrity, freedom of conscience and expression, and freedom from discrimination, within its context to promote all human rights” (source: Wikipedia, Amnesty International official website)
• Lebanese Red Cross: founded in 1945.
• Noam Chomsky: Institute Professor and professor emeritus of linguistics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). Described by the New York Times book review as “arguably the most important intellectual alive”. Chomsky was voted the leading living public intellectual in the 2005 Global Intellectuals Poll conducted by the British magazine “Prospect”. In a list compiled by the magazine “New Statesman” in 2006, he was voted seventh in the list of “Heroes of our time”. According to “The Nation”: “Noam Chomsky is a major scholarly resource. Not to have read him is to court genuine ignorance”. Noam Chomsky has received many honorary degrees from the most prestigious universities around the world, including: Harvard University, Georgetown, Columbia University, McGill university, Cambridge University and many more. Finally, Time Magazine in December 1999 included Noam Chomsky in its list of “The Greatest Minds of the 20th century”.
• Alain Menargues: French investigative journalist and writer. Former director of Radio France Internationale and former Beirut correspondent of Radio France from 1982 to 1995.
I still cannot believe how you had the guts to put these sources down as citations. I would be embarrassed.
My friend, get it out of your mind: I am not a Partisan of Aoun. He participated in some of the massacres of the civil war. However, when balanced out against LF atrocities, Aoun’s atrocities pale in comparison. Furthermore, you should know that deep animosity exists between Aoun and Robert Fisk. Robert Fisk constantly describes Michel Aoun as “believing himself to be the Messiah”. Fisk was banned from entire East Beirut during the entire War of Liberation by Michel Aoun because of that statement. Hence, Fisk does not speak at all in the name of the Opposition.
To sum it up, go take a few courses in college to learn argumentative writing principles. And then we can discuss properly, kid.

By: othello

othello — Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:34:29 +0000

Hahahahahaha nice shot amigo…trying to gain time???

did you cite any sources? let me remind you that the burden of proof lies on you and not on me since you made the allegations in the first place…

Nevertheless here are a couple of sources I generally like to read and re-read:

= From Michel Aflak to Michel Aoun by Fayez Azzi
= Hazihi Shahadati by Paul Andari
= LBC archive along with Al Nahar newspaper (there was no al akhbar back then sorry chrik)
= Innaho Howa min al wilada ila al wilada by Joseph Chartouni
= Kossat al mawarina fil hareb by Joseph Abi Khalil

now I bet you will come back asking me for page numbers etc bass as I told you, the burden of proof lies on you amigo so get cracking