14 Comments. Add your own...

• 1. Free Thinker | May 22nd, 2007 at 5:03 am

  Mr N10452;

  Please allow me to comment on your latest post “Orange Call Center”.
  As a lebanese, free thinker living in the US (i.e I don’t belong to any political party), It’s funny to read that you think that the Aouniyyi don’t think for themselves and they all sound the same. I agree. However I have lots of friends Ouwet here and in lebanon and they all sound the same too. If you think what Geagea thinks and the Aouniyyi think what Aoun thinks then we’re going to hell in this country because they’re both human and they both make mistakes and all their followers don’t need to make the same mistakes. “afdal wa7ad yghallet men el kel”.

  1. Aside from the Hezbollah issue which irrelevant at this time, how can a governement ask for lebanese groups to trun in their weapons while there are other groups (not lebanese) who are armed and dangerous.

  2. The governement did know about Fata7 el Islam. They had brush with the army in Dinniyi a while ago, got arrested (some of them), release through ‘anoun el 3afou el 3am”, trashed el Achrafiyyi last year (while Geagea called them “our brothers in 14 February).

  My lebanese (and christian brother I assume), regardless whether or not you belong to General Aoun’s party or not, think for yourself and you’ll come to realise that what he’s saying is right. To prove my point, in your attack on his speech, you have never called him a liar, you just referenced some other situations (HA related) where you don’t agree with him. In other words, you’re agreeing that what he’s saying is right you’re just calling him a hypocrite for other irrelevant situations.

  If I may ask another question: Why is it that you “Ouwet” refuse new elections? Do you think the old elecations, the one done with the 2000 law, the same law that ouwet and aouniyyi boycotted is not fair??

• 2. 888 | May 22nd, 2007 at 9:34 am

  It is always the same. All the Aounis say that they dont belong to any party.Ya Free Thinker, khallasna ba2a….we are bored of hearing that we do not belong to any party but General Aoun is right……..If you are ashame of being with him simply forget about him and find another party…..

• 3. S.M.S. | May 22nd, 2007 at 11:08 am

  Just because someone doesn’t belong to a particular political party, it doesn’t immediatly insures that they are capable of giving an objective opinion, which the first comment has proven. Obviously you are not objective. However if you are a true free thinker, that I cannot judge.

• 4. Fad14 | May 22nd, 2007 at 12:48 pm

  I love the FPM, its like diet , but instead of stopping food, you can stop thinking and live on the ideas of a great leader, GMA( winner of the fastest urge for coffee, even before starbux opened).

• 5. KeepWalking | May 22nd, 2007 at 2:02 pm

  Free Thinker, you forced me to remind you of what that right Guy did.

  - No Syrian was allowed to enter East Beirut before the ilgha war.
  - He detroyed the christians and weakened them.
  - He allowed the syrians to enter Lebanon after his Ilgha war. here let me explain:
  . he did Liberation war (which noone would ever do at that time) and he failed so the Syrians asked him to iliminate the Lebanese forces and then he would be elected as a president… but sure the syrians made fun of him and entered the christians area…
  - he and his party insulted our Cardinal. I think you remember very well what those blind Aouniyyeh did… i cant imagine they did it!!!
  - He was agaisnt Hizballah weapons and now he is protecting them!!!
  -
  -
  -
  - He is repeating the same mistakes he did before. Oh god , he doesnt learn from his own mistakes…

  Well i dont blame him because for me he is crazy. I only blame those who follow him.

  One additional comment “His father was in Deir El salib” so you can have a clear idea of whom you are following…. This is a fact and not a joke…

• 6. Free Thinker | May 22nd, 2007 at 4:56 pm

  The reason, it seems I defend General Aoun is because the article I commented on addressed him and no one else. Had their been any remarks on any other leaders, I would’ve given my opinion. However the article being a direct comment on General Aoun’s speech, I think it’s mainly obvious that I would mention him in my comment and no reason to comment on anyone else.
  I had reservations on the guy and also admire him in different things.
  I think this is lebanese people problem; we idealize a man not a cause!!!
  To give you a relevant example. I started as a lebanese forces supporter back in my young days when our gun was to stop the palestenians in lebanon; that was out cause regardless of the leader (leaders come and go), however when our brothers starting abusing power and looting on check points even in christian areas (the same poeple our guns was suppose to defend), then we lost our cause.

  To SMS: I think not belonging to a political party makes me More objective than you, even if not completely objective like you say.
  Let me tell you something: To show you that you’re not objective at all, 30 years ago you would’ve shot a Durzi where he stands, now your leader hails Jumblat (the christian slayer) in Harisa during a mass for lebanese forces men killed by his hands.
  Who knows my friend, one day, you might be hailing Aoun if your leader does it. In arabic we say “7faz khat el raj3a”.

  To Fad14: If you can’t be mature enough about your comment like the rest of us, I think you’re only emabrassing yourself by posting.

  Long live lebanon

• 7. N10452 | May 22nd, 2007 at 6:01 pm

  Free Thinker,
  Thank you for ur input.

  First of all to make it clear, I do not think at all what Geagea thinks and i critisize him on several occasions, and this ’sheep’ phenomenem is spread on all parties in Lebanon, however The Oranges excel at it, unlike LFers where you find people critisizing Hakim decisions or even his leadership.

  I agree with you 100% and i wish everyone had the guts to critisize their leaders instead of defending them blindly, and to make things clear, i am an LFer by thought, but i do not belong to the LF political party and do not wish to join the current party since i am opposed to many of its policies, responsibles and structure.

  In summary, i am a Free LFer.

  Now to answer ur questions:
  1. I never said that the government should ask HA first, but while the camps are surrounded by army men, HA is spread everywhere and is providing a cover for lots of parties either intentionally or unintentionally.
  Let him disarm and reinforce the army so we can start controlling the Palestinians better.

  2. The government undermined the group and it is a mistake, however let me remind you that this government is the prime target of this group and the infiltration within the security forces is a very serious issue ( cause Lahoud is refusing to sign the new appointments), and you cannot really put the whole blame on them ..
  The Lebanese Army has been weakened for more than 20 years now and the ISF forces are corrupted, do not expect miracles.

  On their way to Tripoli, engines of two army M113 broke down and they had to pull over, this is how weak the army still is.

  However, i already warned in several posts about allowing such fanatic groups to spread even politically ( 7ezb el taw7eed) and i hope the government will take more severe measures this time.

  Finally, Aoun is insulting the people’s intelligence and exploiting such situations to score points and in a very hypocrite way.

  He is not credible to talk this way, its not a matter of lying or not.

  Finally,
  LF refuses new elections ? I dont think they refuse it, and the last elections were unfair, BUT there is a priority nowadays which is electing a new president, we need to continnue what we started with the Cedars Revolution and clean the Syrian filth before asking for such demands.

  FPM have no right to ask for new elections since they approved the Ghazi Kanaan law and voted, let them act democratically and respect the majority’s legimitacy and wait till next elections, this is what happens in all democratic countries.

  Changing Lahoud is a priority in my opinion and after that, i welcome any elections and am sure the LF does.

  We have achieved so many things so far, we have the whole world backing our government from all sides and financing our army and helping us get rid of criminals and establishing the international tribunal.

  It would be suicidal to go for elections and who knows end up in chaos if problems erupt ..

  Hope i answered your questions.

  Regards,

• 8. Free Thinker | May 22nd, 2007 at 9:02 pm

  N10452,
  Thank you for your clarification. I’m not familiar with all your posts, but nevertheless I congratulate on not idolizing any political leader over their cause.

  Concerning elections and all. I think if you put yourself in the oppositions shoes, you’ll find some logic in what they ask for.
  The current people in parliament don’t represent the lebanese correctly and you agree because the law that the elections went under was detailed by syrians to oppress majorities! However having said that, you have to remember that all political parties were pressured by the US to have the elections on time and therefore it was either “play or stay on the side” and the oppoisition back then was mostly christian since HA was part of the “ta7elok el rouba3i” so the Aouniyyi had no choice but to play (you can’t disagree that they have a large number of supporters especially among christians). Back at the time, the big lie was to make an election for 1 year (temporary), fix the election law and have another election the next year!
  Anyway, now the past is behind and we find ourselves infront of a situation: the president, the highest christian position is about to be elected by representative who don’t represent their people! How is this democratic and would any other people in other country allow it?!!? Lahoud is an asshole, but we don’t want another asshole, what we need is a strong presented that the true majority wants, even it’s the devil. Isn’t this democracy?!?
  How hard was it, for the current governement to setup new elections and elect the proper people (to give you an idea, the only elections I watched was in the North, I’m from Akkar). In Batroun, the Orange candidate had 40,000 votes compared to 25,000 more or less for the LF, this is in Batroun only, when results from tripoli came, he lost. Why should the muslims in tripoli defy the democratic right of christians in Batroun or any other part in lebanon.
  Anyway, it wasn’t hard. But the fact the current ruling staff was absolutely positive that General Aoun would win the majority in the elections (after winning totality in christian areas) and presidency stopped them.
  I don’t care who the guy is (like I said could be the devil) if the true majority wants him, he should be president.

  And the famous treaty with HA. Let me comment for other posters who question that. In my opinion, it was a move to guarantee christians in lebanon that a fight with HA would never threaten them which is what they were afraid of, and to guarantee HA that the christians are not out to get them and to settle fears of possible civil wars. But the Hariri and Jumblat clan (who in my opinion are the worst mother fuckers who ever came to power) decided to let their sheep think of it in other ways (he’s backing syria and all that crap). This is shamefull, to your brothers in “Orange” who were oppressed like you were, who were put in jails like you were and who were shot with water hoses like you were.

• 9. N10452 | May 22nd, 2007 at 11:23 pm

  Free Thinker,

  I hope you will become a frequent reader and see how no one is spared from critics here

  Back to ur questions, i do not believe it was the US who pressured parties to get into elections, i hope no HA hears you
  Everyone wanted elections and agreed on this law including Aounists and LFers .. i did not agree honestly and boycotted the elections and critisized harshly this decision.

  There was no big lie about elections being for one year, let me remind you we had the july war next year.

  Now concerning the president, i must disagree totally here, Hariri & Berri and all 14th of march leaders are supporting Bkerke’s decision and i believe The patriarch is better represented than Aoun in the Christian community…

  And why are you telling me the president is gonna be elected by those who dont represent their people ???

  Those were democratic elections and you cannot claim that .

  I refuse having early elections before getting rid of the syrian filth in Baabda, it is our demand since 2 years and 14th of march has the right to ask for it before anything else and it is a high priority in my opinion for several reasons:

  1- The president is blocking all decisions taken to change the syrian collaborators still in charge in the ISF and army.

  2- The president is protecting criminals and defending them.

  3- The president is weakening his post everyday and causing a major damage to the presidency.

  and many other reasons…

  The HA-FPM understanding was pure bull shit to be honest, and the damage Aoun did to himself by signing it is unrepairable, he was the ultimate candidate for presidency with external support, now no one wants to hear of him.

  I believe FPM has righteous demands but are following a megaloman who only wants presidency leaving them no credibility whatsoever .. as for the LF, they r too weak to make any difference yet ..

  It is indeed shameful to see those whom i demonstrated rally with Hezbollah and Frangieh and other syrian filth, but it is also shameful to see the LF so weak and incapable and also following Jumblatt-Hariri instead of taking initiatives like it always did .

• 10. S.M.S. | May 23rd, 2007 at 12:23 am

  Jumblatt is not my leader, and never will be. Shows how much of a free thinker you are to jump to the conclusion just because the LF are allies with him, I will hail him as a hero or as anything but someone who does seem to want Lebanon quite independent, and finally! I do not see him as anything but another sociopathic leader who realised that the best way to protect his people, is to finally follow the beliefs and principles the LF have always followed.
  Don’t lay claims, and then pretend you are the ONLY free thinker. For your information, I am not an lfer and have never been, but I do admire their line, so does that fact make me more objective to you, I doubt it very much!!!
  I was brought up among them, and as a Christain, I know who has defended me before and will lay his soul to defend me again.
  As for hailing Aoun as hero, sorry but when “pigs fly”, That would be the day I denounce my Lebanese Citizenshiip which I am still very proud of. And if my socalled leader does it, assuming you mean Geagea, then to hell with him too.

• 11. proud 2 b lf | May 23rd, 2007 at 3:25 pm

  lol i think free thinker is not a free thinker but he is an orange thinker…..lol

  i cant believe how strong r the fpmers r in washing brains…even the brains of free thinkers

• 12. Free Thinker | May 23rd, 2007 at 8:35 pm

  N10452;
  I do agree on most points however to clarify why I believe the current parlement does not represent it’s people.
  Like I said in my previous post, if you take the opinion of the people of a small town like batroun, as representatives of their town, they chose other candidates, that shows when the count for “kada2 el batroun” came in. But when you add the votes of 500,000 muslims in Tripoli who want the Hariri clan, to those then of course you’re gonna tip the scale. So the opinion of the Batrounese was waisted because it doesn’t matter if 100% of them vote one man, if a fraction of tripoli votes for the other than he’s gonna lose. And this is the case everywhere in Lebanon. Why should our representatives be chosen by others!!??
  Take in Bcahrry for example the right people one, only because they were partnered with the majority in Tripoli. Tripoli has 7 representatives only, but because the way the law is the people in tripoli are voting on behalf of the people in bcharry and batroun and zgharta and akar and all over. This shouldn’t be!!

  I can’t judge whether Aoun did a mistake or not by signing an accord with HA, only time will tell!! Speculations are too many and it’s only speculations.

  However as christians, I think the old law does not guarantee us correct representation and that’s a Hariri plan all along! “aslem el ared bi aslem el cha3eb” he said it!!! that’s why beirut is sold to khalijiyi etc…

  Lahoud is dirt, I agree. We need to get rid of him…But getting rid of him and getting another man, voted to office by the people that came to power through a syrian law is still wrong!!!
  You gotta uproot the problem from as deep as it goes.

  Change the law, elect new representative, elect the new president and the trash in b3abda will go away!!!

  All it takes is a month!!! 250 million people in the US elect their president in a single day. I think we can manage it in a month!!

  In addition, I agree with you 100% when you say that the LF are not free to make decisions and they’re tied to Hariri. So the majority of christians in 14 March are not free to decide…Do we want a president that Hariri/Jumblat decide on?

• 13. KeepWalking | May 24th, 2007 at 10:01 am

  The biggest problem the christians ever had is “Michel Aoun”. He divided the christians. He tried to become a second Bachir Jemayel… but he couldnt… He should never become a president. he had a chance when he was head of the government but he proved that he can do nothing with politics. IF he will be elected which I 100% disapprove, we would be making a second big mistake. we should learn from mistakes (i hope the Aouniyyeh would learn)… The only spokes person in Aoun party is Aoun. Noone is allowed to give idea that he doesnt agree…. it is like being in the army… what a free patriotic movement it is….

• 14. Jad | June 1st, 2007 at 3:18 am

  Free thinker
  Stop watching Al Manar, it is so damaging as it seems …

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