27 Comments. Add your own...

• 1. Johnny.B | December 20th, 2007 at 12:16 pm

  nice article

• 2. nad. | December 20th, 2007 at 12:52 pm

  very nice

• 3. Ibrahim | December 20th, 2007 at 1:19 pm

  Dear all,

  I know that everybody in Lebanon is busy with politics but I would like to make this attempt and see if it works with a Lebanese brother from another religion.

  Arguing in a civilized, open minded way without emotions or tribal feelings about religion. I am saying it to myself as well so don’t be offended.

  “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
  So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God”

  Think about it.
  Can God have a wife, sister or son or any kind of entity who shares His Ability, Power or any other attribute?
  Can HE by definition have this kind of relationship with anybody?
  Will HE stay God?

  It might seem strange to you, but I would rather argue from a rational way about religion because it doesn’t cotradict with my beliefs.

  Enjoy your vacations.

  Best, Ibrahim

• 4. Durandal | December 20th, 2007 at 1:38 pm

  L’islam est une religion de haine. Je ne vois pas ce que la Chretiente devrait avoir en commun avec..

• 5. GARY | December 20th, 2007 at 3:19 pm

  Christian don t celebrate adha because we believe it was Ishac n not Ismael that Abraham was willing to sacrifice.

• 6. mrlooos | December 20th, 2007 at 4:47 pm

  abraham was willing to sacrifice isak not ismael.isak is the son of abraham from his wife but ismael is from his servant hajar so adha is for the christians

• 7. Paul | December 20th, 2007 at 4:58 pm

  Dear Ibrahim,

  You do not think that every religion has something incomprehensible for us humans?

  Eid moubarak.

• 8. makarios | December 20th, 2007 at 7:16 pm

  To Ibrahim
  You are perfectly right when you say
  “Can God have a wife, sister or son or any kind of entity who shares His Ability, Power or any other attribute?
  Can HE by definition have this kind of relationship with anybody?
  Will HE stay God?”
  however the Christian God is ONE UNIQUE GOD in 3 persons (in Greek Hypostaseis) : God is not comprehensible to the human mind and the essence of God will always remain unknown to us even in Paradise. However because our God is ONE GOD in THREE Persons we can say that one of His names is Love.
  Returning to the current situation in Lebanon we are inflicting to ourselves big suffering because some want dominate others.
  God created us free but those who become “leaders” in our arab world think they are happier if they enslave the others.
  However no one ever wins since we are all mortals : thanks to death evil people do not spread their malice for eternity , and ordinary “good” people even if they fear death ; when they repose , they may enter a better world.
  In Lebanon today we have no choice than to resist and keep faith.
  Eid Mubarak

• 9. Chad -- Minneapolis | December 20th, 2007 at 7:58 pm

  Dear Ibrahim,

  You bring a great point, however, religion is based on faith and not reason (even though I always have a hard time with that concept).
  Back to your question, this could take a long time but to summarize it, we (Christians) believe that man was made in the image of GOD, so GOD becoming human is not something bad. We believe that GOD loved his people so much that He decided to become human in the form of his son Jesus and live with us through our pain and humanity. This was His way to tell us we are his children and each one of us can represent and even be him. So our humanity could become a divinity because we are portraying GOD. This being said, to explain how GOD could have a son, a brother, a wife or a sister is simple. If you believe that GOD is not one entity, or an old guy sitting on his chair and playing around with people’s destiny, and if you believe that GOD is omnipresent in each one of us, then you can understand the Trinity.
  Trinity: a lot of Muslim friends do not understand this concept. How can God, be a father and have a son and a Holy Spirit.
  To put it in a simple way: You have a body, you have a mind and you have communication skills, but you’re still one person. I “believe” I am talking to you through e-mail, even though I do not see your body or see your mind. So your way of communication is representing you. Back to the Holy Trinity: God is the omnipresent energy (think of it as the mind) that guides the universe, and he is represented his son (Jesus or any righteous human being or form of life, and you can think of this as the Body of GOD) and finally God is the Holy spirit which is the ability for humans to communicate and reason with each other and even perform miracles. So GOD is one but can have different forms.
  In summary, once you stop believing that God is an old guy sitting on a chair, and follow the Koran that our minds will never be able to comprehend the power of GOD, then I see no reason why you cannot believe that GOD is present in anything we see around us, from yourself to all creations. God is represented in all people and all religions.
  Again, you cannot apply reason and can never understand that, but you can use your faith to try to understand.
  Finally, the answer to “who is a Muslim”? It is any person who “sallama amrahou li Allah”. Doesn’t that describe many other religions? And according to Christianity, a Christian is anybody who follows God (or Allah) and does to others what he wants others to do to him. Doesn’t that describe a true Muslim?
  Finally, the idea of God having a wife, or a sister bothers people because we tend to believe that Humanity is a sin. (As a side note, we do not believe that GOD/Jesus had a wife and he was born from the Virgin Mary because God loved his sons so much that he wanted to become one of them and die for their sins. That is the ultimate sacrifice a GOD can make to his sons to prove that He is a loving GOD and not somebody who is here to go on punishing people).

  Anyway, I can go on and on…

• 10. Kouwatje | December 20th, 2007 at 8:11 pm

  IF god has the ability to do anything he wants , isnt he able to have a son ? arent we ( humans ) sons of god ? dont we call god our father ? we were created in the image of god we all are a part of god so it shouldnt be difficult to understand how jesus is god himeself

• 11. Delta | December 20th, 2007 at 8:25 pm

  استبعد الرئيس الاميركي جورج بوش اجراء اي محادثات مباشرة مع الرئيس السوري بشار الاسد، مؤكدا ان “صبره نفد بشأن الرئيس الاسد منذ وقت طويل”. وقال بوش ردا على سؤال حول ما اذا كان سيتحدث مع الاسد للعمل على انهاء الازمة السياسية في لبنان: “اذا كان الاسد يستمع الي، فانه لا يحتاج الى اتصال هاتفي فهو يعرف بالضبط ما هو موقفي”. واضاف: “لقد نفد صبري بشأن الاسد منذ وقت طويل والسبب هو انه يأوي حماس ويسهل الامور لحزب الله، ويتوجه الانتحاريون من بلاده الى العراق ويعمل على زعزعة استقرار لبنان”. أضاف: “ارحب بالمساعي لانتخاب رئيس في لبنان، واذا تعذر ذلك يجب على الاكثرية ان تنتخب بالنصف زئدا واحدا، وكل العالم سيرحب بهذه الخطوة

• 12. Delta | December 20th, 2007 at 8:32 pm

  ouuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

• 13. Amir in Tel Aviv | December 20th, 2007 at 9:19 pm

  Jews don’t celebrate Eid Al Ad7a either.
  .

• 14. GARY | December 20th, 2007 at 11:10 pm

  chad
  you explain it very well

• 15. Snake the Jake | December 21st, 2007 at 5:24 am

  Why don’t we celebrate Adha? Why, because we’re not Muslim, that’s why! For the same reason Muslims don’t celebrate Christmas.
  Where is this multi-culturalist relativism taking us folks? Shouldn’t we be free to NOT observe (nor even recognize) the holidays of other traditions PRECISELY BECAUSE they are not our traditions???
  I don’t see any Muslims beating themselves up for not believing in our ways! Why should we be remorseful for not believing in theirs?

  Hell, Muslims don’t believe Jesus was the son of God and His incarnation on earth, nor do they believe He died on the cross for our salvation! And why should they, afterall? They are not Christian, they are Muslim! They believe Muhammad was the apostle of God! I believe he was a phony, a false prophet, and a bellicose opportunist! And I should be able to express my worldview with the same candor they express theirs.

  SCREW idiotic multiculturalist relativism!

• 16. Jay | December 21st, 2007 at 7:11 am

  Was it Ismael or Issac that Ibrahim was willing to sacrifice for God?

• 17. theCourtFool | December 21st, 2007 at 11:25 am

  I’m Christian and I Celebrate all “Lebanese” religious events.

  We never needed a reason to parrteh anyways!

• 18. Condor | December 21st, 2007 at 5:13 pm

  Discussing religion differences in a civilized manner is what makes a country like Lebanon years ahead of some countries in the muslim/arab world that breed hatred and extremism that end up brain washing generations of young people and cause them to commit heinous acts in the name of islam. Let it be known that all lebanese from all religions are above that and can get together to discuss their religious beliefs in a free and open manner…that is after all at the core of Loubnan’s existence!

• 19. Ibrahim | December 22nd, 2007 at 2:49 am

  Hello again,

  Sorry I couldn’t reply earlier because I had an exam.

  Guys, how can what you believe is God or part of God be killed. How can He be in need to breathe, eat, drink, sleep…?

  God should not need anything from anybody.

  He should not have any kind of weakness.

  Human beings have by nature many weaknesses and therefore God can never be represented with a human image.

  This short article explains what I mean.
  http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1154526120043&pagename=Zone-English-Discover_Islam%2FDIELayout

• 20. Snake the Jake | December 22nd, 2007 at 5:30 am

  Ibrahim, you’re such a goof!
  I say screw you and your God if you want to try to get the mystery of the divine into your stunted mind. Give it up, girl. If God CAN be a jealous lecherous asshole like your God, and if he doesn’t think twice about sending people to their death in his name, and if he thinks nothing of promising sexually frustrated bearded Muslims a heaven and an eternal live of carnal pleasure and 72 easy virgins, then he can sure as hell die, can’t he?
  Like I said, Ibrahim, you’re an idiot.
  The Christians spent many centuries of Dark Ages debating the nature of God and the sex of angels. But that was about a thousand years ago. We have moved along since, and are currently colonizing space, the domain of your God. It seems that your idiotic culture is still about a thousand years behind us. When you folks wake up from your slumbers, it will bee too late for your loser culture.
  Take a hike.

• 21. Ibrahim | December 23rd, 2007 at 3:43 am

  Well, I won’t respond in the way you did because I still think that many Lebanese can debate senssitive issue in a civilized manner like the others on the blog did.

  There is just one thing that I would like to comment on from the low language: “give it up, girl”. Why did you say that. Are you insulting me by saying that I am a girl?

  Besides that I will try to argue in a rational and not impulsive way.

  First you didn’t answer my question.

  Secoond you made a fallacy: what happened to the European Christians doesn’t apply to Mulims because everything is different.
  The Church in Europe tortured and killed scientists, opressed people, divided the paradise for people and took its price from its followers and finally they played a dirty political role.

  Many parts were also added and removed to the bible and many statements from the old and new testaments were refuted by science. The flood that took place at the time of Noah is one example.

  All this doess’t apply to Islam. There are plenty of scientific statements in the Quran and there is not a single contradiction with any scientific fact. In fact that scientific statements in the Quran were confirmed by modern science in the twentieth century. You can review it to make sure.

  Another point: the religeous scholars were themselves the scientists in chemistry, physics, mathematics because there is no seperation between science and religion in Islam.

  The point that I am trying to make is that what you said applies to christianity and not to Islam.

  As for the question about the nature of God, you can review the history of theological debate in Islam and you will realize that this issue was never considered because the Islamic belief states that it could never be known. Angels are believed to be neither males nor females so it is not an issue either.

  As for the advanced world that you are talking about, I suggest you make some research and conduct some studies.
  The West is not the advanced as you might think. There are huge places of the US that are insecure. The number of sex slaves is in hundreds of thousands. Addicts are in millions. the number of people who were killed in the wars of the twentieth century under secular governments is around 178 million. Not to forget the different forms of discrimination…

  However there are some great tehnological achievements and some great scholars from the West and I admire that. I also admire the work and discipline of European.s

  One last thing, make a study about the number of practicing Muslims who are doing graduate studies in Europe and you will be surprised.

  Hope you change your attitude,
  Best wishes,
  Ibrahim

  Those are some references about what I said:
  About sex slaves:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uebRX2v83RI

  http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1173695121639&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout

  Scientific Miracles of the Quran:
  http://www.islamicinvitationcentre.com/audio/Maurice_Bucaille/Scientific_Miracle_in_the_Quran/Scientific_Miracle_in_the_Quran.html

  Science and Islam:
  http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996016316

• 22. shabola_egypt | December 23rd, 2007 at 11:29 am

  calim down guys, it does not required such arrguments , remember that at first we ‘re humanbeings and we ‘re one nation & it doesn’t matter what do u believe in ,look at europeans many cultuers many languages many different religions and become one community ,homogenous thoughts

  IT IS GOD WILLING TO BE DIFFERENT & FROM THAT ASPECT U CAN FEEL THE MEANING OF LIFE

• 23. Snake the Jake | December 23rd, 2007 at 4:20 pm

  My dear Ibrahim, sorry if I offended you by–unwittingly–referring to you as a girl. It was unintentional! It’s just an expression that I use, m7att kalém as we say in Lebanese.
  In any case, I’m puzzled as to why such a reference would be an insult?
  Man, if I was a girl, I would stay home and play with my boobs all day! That’s not an insult, it’s a compliment.

  For the rest, it’s useless debating you!

  1- You’re a religion freak, and I’m not!

  2- The basis of your identity is religious (same as that of Medieval Europeans), and mine is not!

  3- Wars of religions is not a relevant topic to me, yet it is to you and to the majority of Muslims that I know!

  4- My culture doesn’t do “flying into buildings” and “decapitating peoples on videotape” and “suiciding themselves” in the name of religion, and YOURS DOES!

  So, in the end, your silly argument about the “historicity” of Koran and its “scientific wonder”, as opposed to the presumed falsity of the Bible etc… is all pissing in the wind.
  The fact remains that Christendom (that is Europe and Western Culture, NOT Christians per se), it remains that Christendom, despite its false message (as you would like to delude yourself) can run circles around your culture, which is slumbering and wallowing in useless arguments…

  Additionally, you wanna talk about modern day slavery, repression, inequality, totalitarianism, torture on a cultural scale, oppression of women and sex slavery, closetted pedophilia and raging homosexuality, unequal relationships between totalitarian rulers and brutalized ruled??? LOOK AT YOURSELF and YOUR “Chosen Umma”! You people have written the book on all of these ills! It is called the Koran.

  Sure, there are snippets of all of these ills in Western culture, but at least in OUR world these are the exceptions not the rules, and we live in TRANSPARENT societies (I don’t think you know what transparency means) where wrongs CAN BE AIRED OUT and remedied. In your culture you have whack jobs like Ahmadinejad who can tell the world with a straight face that “in our [Muslim] societies we don’t have peoples like these [homosexuals] as in your society…”

  What a joke you people are! I guess all the AIDS cases seeping out of the Muslim world these days (in spite of your age old practice of obscurantism and distortion of truth) all of these cases of AIDS are some Zionist conspiracy, NOT THE FACT THAT YOUR CLOSETS ARE BEING VIOLENTLY FLUNG OPEN BY THE SHEER SIZE OF THE SKELETONS YOU’VE BEEN JAMMING INSIDE OF THEM FOR CENTURIES.

  THERE IS ONE, ONLY ONE, WORD THAT CAN ADEQUATELY DESCRIBE YOUR CULTURE AND YOUR MEDIEVAL ATTITIDES, IBRAHIM! HYPOCRISY!

• 24. Ibrahim | December 23rd, 2007 at 11:57 pm

  Man, why are you insulting my beliefs again.
  Why all this hatred fueling those accusations. A civilized dialogue is everything I was aiming for.
  I honestly don’t have anything against you as a person.

  What is the big deal if we had different opinions and beliefs. Why couldn’t we have a decent dialogue. Is my religeous identity behind this hatred?!!!!

  You didn’t answer even a single question.

  Anyway kindly remove yourself from the box which you locked yourself in. The generliazations and stereotypes you used don’t apply to me.

  At the end, we are all humans so I respect the human aspect of any person including any Christian, Jew, Budhist…. and we are all equal on this level.

  I don’t respect any idea that degrades women.

  You can be sure of one thing, I will neither be an admirer to Ahmadi Najad nor to sayyed Hassan. There is no Arab president that represents me starting with Bashar and ending with the Saudi king.

  As for the terrorist acts, you can review the statements of any Muslim scholar around that topic.

  Unfortunately we still cannot accept ”the other”.

  By the way, my atheist friends in this European country where I live are more than my Muslim friends.

  Again and again, I have nothing against you as a person….
  So please remove this hatred from your heart.

• 25. Snake the Jake | December 24th, 2007 at 5:51 am

  Like I said, Ibrahim, in my “creed” there are no holies and no untouchables! EVERYTHING is debatable and everything is open to criticism, from the Koran, to the Gospels to the life of Muhammad and Jesus. To you, and the “Islamic scholars” you like to flaunt, Koran is the make all and break all…
  To me, if there are lines that cannot be crossed, then there’s no sense in initiating any sort of debate. If you feel justified in your smug belief that the Gospels are a hoax, yet your Koran the word of your God undiluted, then there’s not sense in trying to challenge your delusions.

  To me God is the epitome of humanism, not the petty jealous being with base human needs and wants, who eggs credulous devotees on to kill on his behalf. I don’t give a rat’s ass about what your Muslim scholars say! The fact remains that Islam, like any other ideology, has to be looked at empirically not textually. The fact remains that, empirically, Islam’s history remains a bloody intolerant brutal one. The fact remains that the killers on behalf of Islam are good Muslims who believe that they are doing God’s work on earth; their pathologies are inherent to Islam.
  Again, if you are so blinkered by “faith” as to deny these realities–the atrocities committed on your behalf and in the name of YOUR religion–, then there’s no sense in debating you about anything.

  What I look for is tranparency; what your aim is (as is the aim of many other well-meaning good Muslims), is obfuscation and muddling of the issues so as to shield Islam from criticism. THERE ARE no holy cows in Western societies! EVERYTHING and EVERYONE (from Korans and Gospels to Muhammads and Joshuas) EVERYONE and EVERYTHING is fair game and subject to the microscope! YOU’RE the one barricaded in a box, not I. I tell you let’s let it rip, you tell me Islam is untouchable! I say that’s bullshit!
  Enough said.

• 26. Ibrahim | December 24th, 2007 at 5:16 pm

  Hello again,

  You keep on making assumptions.
  I never said that I am not ready to criticize Islamic text and teachings.

  I just need a humble and respectful person, that’s all. Otherwise, the whole arguments are futile.

  Anyway, I wish you happy holidays.

  Best regards,
  Ibrahim

• 27. Ibrahim | December 27th, 2007 at 12:10 am

  n.b. what i meant by the critiicism is the science of narration. It is “naqd al naqd”.

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