27 Comments. Add your own...

• 1. delta | March 8th, 2007 at 10:34 am

  Mr. 10452 kmMan Venom posting should not be aproved untill he appologize for insulting the lebanese forces and calling them criminals u dont come to people houses and u insult them walaw ?! i hope u consider the respect that we owe to our martyrs and make him apologize before aprooving anything fof his ostings

  Salem il massih

• 2. firstlook | March 8th, 2007 at 12:03 pm

  That I do not understand, is how can others showed astonishment of the liberal movement, such as March 14 called revolution, the revolution of cedar and with the intransigent regimes in the Middle East. In regard to the subject and the cross sign, how can mr. Geagea, the Lebanese Forces to be reconciled with the Saudi regime who considering Christians and the Red Cross are evil while there is No freedom of religious or humanitarian and it suppresses women, including the fact that today is International Women’s Day … I am not religious but what ye2harni to see how the religious groups invested in the politics and the rights of people.

• 3. WHAT | March 8th, 2007 at 12:55 pm

  I don’t think it should be banned from anything as long as it is properly represented. Having this cross on a flag just shows how proud someone is to defend their community.

  ANYONE who insults this cross is just afraid of it because they don’t what it means and people are afraid of what they don’t know.

  Now that they know what it means, I don’t want to hear a peep from them regarding this cross.

• 4. Venom | March 8th, 2007 at 2:16 pm

  Delta:
  ma tshakeeneh 3and el 2estez hala2….LOL
  Khalas ma tez3al Lebanese Forces mesh criminals…they killed for the 2adeyeh….2a7san hek….

• 5. Shadow | March 8th, 2007 at 3:07 pm

  I don’t know what to say, its very controversial issue.

  On one hand this cross will remind us of many Lebanese Forces martyrs who died defending their brotherhood on the other hand I heard that the Maronite Patriarch and Moutran Aoudeh are against this Cross and what I know and I’m sure about it that Moutran Awdeh asked Hakim and Lebanese Forces officials to stop using this cross and maybe our Patriarch did the same.

  I guess, After Hakim saw that the people who are responsible in church are against this cross .He decided to stop using Lebanese Forces cross as an official symbol specially we are a political party and not religious party.

  This Cross will be in the heart of every LFer and. I know many LFers are still putting this cross on their necks and or inside their cars or on their shirts and on their PCs and ……

  In all of its official events, Lebanese Forces is banning this cross and it had stop showing it .

  Maybe this topic needs more discussion among all Lebanese Forces guys and with the Patriarch, Moutran awdeh and other bishops and we have check also the opinion of Christian community ( people who are not in LF ) what is their opinion regarding Lebanese Forces cross.

• 6. CellophaneSIX | March 8th, 2007 at 5:40 pm

  I don’t understand, why did the the Patriarch ban the cross? Its true that this cross is misused sometimes… but let us not forget that the cross represents everything we are, everything we fought and are still fighting for, this cross itself is our very identity.

  @Venom: Were was Michel Aoun when brave men were dying on the borders? Where was Michel Aoun when people were struggling for survival? Where was Michel Aoun when Christians were being attacked on all sides?

  Its really fucking ironic, FPM members look at Hezbollah and see how great they are, and how brave they are, and how well they defend the country against Israel, and on the other hand does not even recognize what the Lebanese Forces did.

  The only argument you have is that the LF were a bunch of “criminals”… well let me tell you something dear friend, people who sat there during the war and all they did was talk shit and say “I’m not part of this, I don’t want to get my hands dirty…” and they were damn pround of it are the real criminals, and people who just stood there while other died, and didn’t even care , are the real criminals. People like you who have absolutely no sense of patriotism are the real criminals.

  I am not asking you to fight or help, I’m asking you to at least recognize that the reason Christians exist today in Lebanon is because of the blood of thousands of matryrs who died for the cause you were making fun of.

  So Venom, I ask you for the second time hoping that I’ll get an answer for you; what has Michel Aoun accomplished since 1988 till now?

• 7. madona | March 8th, 2007 at 6:02 pm

  hi deltaa

• 8. charbel | March 8th, 2007 at 6:10 pm

  This is our cross, if we choose to wear it, no one can stop us.

  Nevertheless the decision has been taken, and the LF cross is not an official sign for the party.
  But in every LF and March 14 occasion the LF cross rises in the air. so I do not see what the big deal is here.

• 9. Son of Ehden | March 8th, 2007 at 6:49 pm

  First of all we shouldnt discuss the meaning of this cross in the same topic with Michel Aoun. The guy isnt even christian in anyway. He only goes to church when he needs to make a certain political statement. He was a general. In the army, they brainwash you to have you become more patriotic and less religious. I never even saw the guy “yisalib 3a wigou”. The cross isnt for the LF, or geagea or gemayel or anyone else for that matter. The cross is a symbol of the struggles and suffering of many lebanese christians in general and maronites in particular. The struggle goes back to years and years ago, full of persecution. When i see the cross i dont think of ouwet or aouneh or anything like that, i think of all of us, who survived and of the ones who died so we can still enter our churches proudly and practise our faith. We should never forget our martyrs, not just the LF martyrs but all martyrs who died so we can live and i am sure when these martyrs look down on us i believe they will be very sad to see how divided we are despite all the sacrifices they made for us…
  Please, dont mention Aoun and Cross in the same sentence, dont mention Aoun and Christians in the same line. He was born in Haret Hreik and now he is showing his true colors. “Kill wahad bi yirgi3 3ala aslo”….
  Believe me, i used to like Michel Aoun a lot when i was younger, stupider… Now i realize that the guy is and was a joke. I truely believe he is mentally ill, and he should get treatement.
  On one final note, dont dislike tayyar members because they are fooled, brainwashed…
  Lets try and bring them to our side by strong conversations, debates, proofs… after all, our martyrs didnt die so we can be so divided, so weak… May saydit zgharta watch and care upon all of us…

• 10. Arze | March 8th, 2007 at 8:22 pm

  2 YEARS AGO , When there was LFers making strike for election reasons at my university ,i had a cross like this one , a gold one on my neck that i loved alot ! i was still an lf at this time . one day i was outside class waiting for the teacher to come , then a student who was talking to me looked at my neck , then looked at my eyes and told me “This is the cross that defends the christians ” i told him it is definitly a sign of persistance in the middle east for the christians” ! so he got silent for few seconds and told me again ” Do u really think this cross will protect me and my familly as christians in lebanon and the middle east ?” i told him “yes” , so he told “i dont think so… 4 LF yesterday beaten me , because they were making a strike , and i had to go inside the campus to talk to a teacher , for financial aid , look what they have done to me ?” and what is that i see some blue signs on his neck and his shoulder !
  Since that day…i knew that this cross that i loved so much , wasnt wear by those who want to protect the christians , but for those who want to kill them and control them by force….
  Since that day , chelet el chatbe , and i kept it as it is … on my neck

  So guys…the Cross is not a question….its those who wear to scare others these days , that is a question ….this cross is not to scare others , but to make them love our lord through our descent , and loving behaviour…
  God bless u all
  Arze

• 11. Venom | March 8th, 2007 at 9:30 pm

  Cellophane:

  What he accomplished??? He united Most of the Christians and Lebanese together. From the North to Naqoura….
  He restored our dignity that was taken by the Syrian occupation and today it is stil taken by ur government….and now tell me hat geagea did in his life???

• 12. jean | March 8th, 2007 at 10:55 pm

  The LF cross represents our idendity. It represents who we really are and underlines our resistance. It should be on every flag and every wall. We represent the christian communities resistance and the cross highlights that fact. We will keep our cross present on each and every inch of Lebanon’s soil.

• 13. CellophaneSIX | March 9th, 2007 at 6:42 am

  @Venom: He restored your dignity? Do you even read history? After the liberation war we had much more Syrian troops in Lebanon than we ever had for 15 years. He gave everything Syria was working on for 15 years on a silver plate.

  As for Geagea, take a look at Facts about the LF in this blog and you’ll see some of the things he has accomplished. Also remember that they were those who resisted against all kind of occupation and foreign troops.

• 14. DJUAN | March 9th, 2007 at 8:46 am

  To 10452 and blind supporters ;
  stop lying and face reality , stop cursing othres , stop for one minute and look back at your filthy history , stop and ask you leaders about their lies , because lying creates inequality , you guys are facing inequality and failure ( like usually )..ect..

  per iztezkon 10452 ;there are tons of crosses shaped in different ways, it is not a blasphemy to change its form and it makes perfect sense once u read its interpretation…
  What interpretation you are talking about? your own? per who? yes it is a blasphemy ( jarime) to change it…othrewise kell wahad bighayir chakel al salib 3la tari2to , walla ya 3me chu hayda ? w ilkon 3yn ti7ko kaman?

  Arze, ! be realistic …..

  shadow ; i respect your statment , lf should fix the cross issue ASAP….
  The patriarch banned the cross from before right? why didnt you guys follow? mm? zo3ran? la2,hala2 byiz3l delta ! tab awedim bass ma 3m tissm3o al kilme …this is why ouwet failed the test .
  in conclusion, we are not agaisnt you but you are agaisnt your ownself .If human has no spirituality, no righteousness= no value!
  OUWET = NO VALUE .

  thank you , have a good day…

• 15. DJUAN | March 9th, 2007 at 8:51 am

  to venom;
  ….and now tell me what geagea did in his life??? good question…
  can i take a guess? mmm, let me think
  PRISONER? ….

  GMA W BASS (L)…

• 16. N10452 | March 9th, 2007 at 10:32 am

  Djuan,
  i am talking to you in a respectful way, either respond in a serious way or dont.

  You ask some to stop cursing while u talk about blind followers and filthy history and us being criminals ..
  I did not kill anyone .. this is not my filthy history, as well as u ( i hope so).
  Aoun & Geagea were war lords and there was killing from each side in the war ..
  I can go on and on about the LFers tortured and killed by Aoun’s men, so let us not go there ..

  As for the crosses,
  There are thousands of shapes done for cross and all approved by the Church. It was another illustration of the Cross done by Maronite monks, stop talking nonsense about blasphemy.

  “If human has no spirituality, no righteousness= no value!
  OUWET = NO VALUE .”

  Is this coming from the orange sheep ?

  thank you , have a good day…

• 17. madona | March 9th, 2007 at 11:06 am

  GREAT N10452 , KEEP GOING ONNN ….

• 18. Mano | March 9th, 2007 at 1:12 pm

  La Ydal EL Salib Aala Jbelo Aalameh

• 19. CellophaneSIX | March 9th, 2007 at 1:16 pm

  @DJUAN: You’re obviously an ignorant, the LF are not the first or the last to change the cross. Let me give you a few examples:

  Saint Anthony’s cross, cross of Sacrifice (Latin Cross), the Patriarchal cross, the Papal cross, the Marian Cross (etched on the casket of Pope John Paul II), the Lorraine cross, High cross (also known as the Celtic Cross), the Eastern cross (used by the Eastern Orthodox Church)…. and this is just the beginning…

  All of these crosses are different from the “standard” cross… you’re going to tell me that all of those I just mentioned is wrong? All of this is blasphemy? Yes, I’m sure… Pope John Paul II is the devil… right?

  THINK before you SPEAK!

• 20. mama aoun | March 9th, 2007 at 8:52 pm

  mish mla7az 3ala 7alak ya djuan 2ennak mastoul ktiiiir.walla mesh 3am bemza7 ta tkoun le7e2 3on l 7ayawen badak tkoun heik w tene chi,law ma men geagea ma kenet 2enta halla2 betrou7 3al knise {2eza kenet masi7e} la 2anno houwe lka2ed lwa7id yalli ken yenzal w y7ereb ma3 lchabeb,w ma ken yet5abba ta7et l2ared metel “der generalak” .

• 21. DJUAN | March 10th, 2007 at 8:04 am

  10452 ;

  I am talking to you in a polite way and thank you for responding .
  I did not kill anyone, im just defending my belief . We have evidence against you and always remember ; HISTORY DOESN’T CHANGE.

  Per you; I can go on and on about the LFers tortured and killed by Aoun’s men, so let us not go there ; really? I’m shocked ! this is an exaggeration and plz dont let me go that way, let ’s keep it real this time coz i know that you are very conscious . wa 2ila i will be posting some brutality in here including ouwet pics and videos bass lachu , kilo ra7 , look forward…..

  I am not cursing ppl in here , but TLEMIZAK laman ma tolo3lon rass balacho yitchakoulak , fajabaroune wajihlak 7ake min hal no3 . since you are the eldest in here and each one of them is relying on you , i had no choice but to escalate my statments ….ma madona kenit 3m tibke :P…

  Again ,If human has no spirituality, no righteousness= no value …this is fact whether you like it or not.. w kell wa7ad fi ta7et batto mssale btin3aro.

  thank you , have a good day..

• 22. CellophaneSIX | March 10th, 2007 at 10:11 am

  I made a point earlier about the LF cross, and you didn’t replied, but that’s OK I always except Aoun’s blind followers to avoid subjects. All you did was talk shit, and continue with the same argument that the LF are a bunch of “criminals”.

  What if I told you that a 12-year old boy was shot by the Lebanese Army during the war, just because he was waving a Lebanese Forces flag on the balcony? Then the Army proposed to give the father $ 30 000 just to keep his mouth shut…

  I’m sorry did that little example shock you? You thought Aoun’s men were saints?

  Now you’re going to ignore what I said, and continue with the same argument, and tell me about the crimes against humanity the Lebanese Forces did during the war…

  Arguing with someone like you is quite pointless, just like your master. Anyway he isn’t worth anything right now, as [and that's something all foreign forces (US, Iran, Syria, France, whatever...) agree on] there are only four “real” factors if you will in Lebanon: Hariri, Lebanese Forces, Hezbollah and Jumblat.

• 23. DJUAN | March 11th, 2007 at 9:35 am

  TO cello ;
  Per you ya fatanje (trouble maker) ; I made a point earlier about the LF cross, and you didn’t replied, but that’s OK I always except Aoun’s blind followers to avoid subjects; simply , my reply for an ignorant like you is ; LA ANA W LA INTA MNIFHAM AKTAR MIN AL BATRAK, UNLESS INTA SIRET BATRAK , BATRAK SAID ; BANNED IT SO EITHER FOLLOW THE ORDERS OR STAY BLIND IGNORANT YA FATAJNE ….

  No need to bring the past coz im tired of it, 12 yr old was shot by the ARMY not aoun’s man NTIBIH we were army not militia , things happen all the times .
  If im shocked at someting that will be SABRA AND CHATILA NOT 12 YR OLD BOY WAS SHOT BY THE ARMY (WHERE IS YOU PROOF) ? lek cobra ba3do 3yich rou7 sa2lo chu 3malo al zo3ran tba3oulak bi sabra ! rou7 sa2lo kiff atalto infants and pregnant women …rou7 sa2lo kiff awassto al bssaynet (cat) ma tarakto chi , mich 7aram 3laykon? 4,000 human being in less than 48 hrs? walla the real ouwet bari2 minAk , w so far chaklak inta wa7ad min hal moujirmin li cherako bil 3maliye ma3 al geysh AL ISRAELIIIIII….;) HAYDE 3 POINTS YA FATANJE..

  Arguing with someone like you is quite pointless, just like your BLOOD MASTER ELIE HBAYKA FROM BEFORE AND NOW DR SAMIR….

  per you ;there are only four “real” factors if you will in Lebanon: Hariri, Lebanese Forces, Hezbollah and Jumblat ; WRONG , coz i dont see them doing anything productive , simply the failed the test and now reliying on others ….FPM is the solution trust me….

  CEllo why the killled elie hbayka? w wayn al criminals li cherako bi sabra w chatilla? chu metto ? akid la2 , bass nezlo w awasso 3la mark houwayek and freinds , ba3don 3ychin w ready to destroy lebanon and christianity again, i have evidence habibi but you dont, so fuck off and know your value as well …..FHIMET?
  WHO’S THE IGNORANT?

  thank you , ana mich 3m hejim al awedim bass cello fatajne w akil khara 3la al ta2il….
  GOD BLESS LEBANON…

• 24. DJUAN | March 11th, 2007 at 9:39 am

  CELLO; Always remember ino elie hbayka got some to do with bashir’s death , w ino dr samir ken yinzal y7areb ma3 al chabeb dod ELEI W ALLIES ,SO internal fights li damaritkon …;)…. ni7na ma khassna , ni7na 3malno al KO w bass ….

• 25. Shadow | March 11th, 2007 at 12:07 pm

  Djuan ,

  Let us keep hate aside and stop digging in history . If you want to talk about killing christians. I think General has turned Lebanese Army from An army that christians respect to an army that kills christians and if your talking about tortures , Please check what General did in kfarshima w bi wizaret dife3 bi shabeb ouwet .

  Your saying about us blind? my freind ,We are just loyal la adiyeh emana fiya w lah nkafiya lel ekher bel roghem men kel akhta2 li saret men abel .

  Djuan to cut things short let us open all war file and then the court will decide who is guilty and by the way you are not a God to judge people w mahadan mnsabak honeh t2ayem 3alam shu heneh.

  Arze,

  If you tell your story to 12 years old boy Beleive me he will laugh at you . if you have created this story then you dont have imagination at all and if it happens That means you dont know anything 3an 3adiyet ouwet w leh more 10,000 Martyrs metou bel jabal w ded flestiniyeh w 3ala hdoud manate3 sharkiyeh w ded sourieh . ye3neh 3an jad mnih li shelteh salib li2anou makenet 3erfeh shou 2imtou w ma3netou.

  I cannot be against tayyar because Djuan is impolite aw ghayrou , ana bkoun ded tayyar li2ana afkarou siyessiyeh mabetnessebneh , moush hadan az3ar w wehed darab teneh.

  Finally let us stick to this subject because really this topic needs more discussion .

• 26. CellophaneSIX | March 11th, 2007 at 12:46 pm

  I hate Elie Hobeika as much as you do, Samir Geagea was the turning point in the LF History if you will… Bachir Gemayel >> Samir Geagea. Fadi Frem and Fouad Abou Nader had no influence on the party whatsoever… Elie Hobeika screwed the Lebanese Forces, this why he had to be removed.

  I would comment on every word you said in your post, but like Shadow said let’s stop digging into history, as this conversation will never end.

• 27. Shadow | March 11th, 2007 at 2:51 pm

  CellophaneSIX ,

  you know them very well ,First they begin by attacking Lebanese Forces after that they discover that LF is gaining poplularity among Lebanese then they try something smart is to separate LF from Hakim by saying LF is not Hakim as if Hakim was never in LF and he deosn’t know anything in LF or any guy from LF and they begin working and encouring some few guys who were ex LF .

  To all these people, As LFers we have full trust in Hakim and full support and confidence and for us he is our only Leader . Hakim continued what Bachir began before.

  We waited him for 12 years while he is prison during these black days , now you want us to be against Hakim.

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