Inter-Christian deadly clashes : When will we learn ? at The Ouwet Front: A Lebanese Forces Blog

Inter-Christian deadly clashes : When will we learn ?

Posted by N10452

Since the early 70s, rival Christian parties clashed and left behind many kills & injured. Sheikh Bashir Gemayel wanted to put an end to this in the late 70s and he almost managed to do so by uniting the militias even if he had to lead some deadly battles to do so.

In 1982, had he took over the presidency, he would have put an end once and for all to all sorts of militias in the country, but he was taken away from us sadly.

Nonetheless, since then, Christian parties never understood that disagreeing on opinions does not mean shooting at each other and killing one another, and apparently many people here are not getting my point … If i call for justice for this young man who died today, i am not saying lets go kill Sleiman Frangieh or some Marada militants, i am calling for a political reaction and a juridical one !

What happened in Bsarma ?

LFers were sticking posters for the Martyrs mass on the 21st of September in Jounieh, and shot at by Marada thug Youssef Frangieh, someone fired back and killed Youssef Frangieh. Pierre Isaac (LFer) was killed and another LFer injured. It turned out an SSNP militant was involved as well in starting the fight.

Koura has a large percentage of LFers as per the last elections, and Marada as well as SSNP have a considerable presence there. Now the reactions were as follows :

Frangieh did not blame the LF surprisingly, but blamed Farid Habib’s bodyguard who was present with the two other LFers hanging the posters, and who was armed and shot Youssef Frangieh and killed him.

Dr.Geagea surprisingly as well said it is NOT a political incident, and asked for his supporters to calm down and hinted about reconciling with Frangieh etc etc ..

I still cannot figure out how that was not a political incident, and what were the motives behind Hakim’s calm speech, nor Frangieh’s moderate PR as well, since both basically were saying that some fight occured and there were two victims and its over and lets move on …

Frangieh might not give a damn about his people, but we do and we always did, and this is the 4th LFer in 3 years killed by Marada thugs, without anyone of them being caught.

I will not go into the details since we’ve discussed them in previous posts, but i would like to shed the light on some issues that are crucial to our existence and continuity as Christians in Lebanon.

1- It is not acceptable to lose young men cause of political differences and it is the duty of the political leaders to take care of their men and refer to the army or ISF whenever any fight erupts and avoid the use of weapons. Since Lfers reported to the Amioun police that they were harassed, why did they have an armed man in the car ? and what was that urgent need to hang the posters knowing things might get ugly ??

It is the responsible’s duty to secure his militants and dont let them get into such situations.

2- It is one thing to disagree in politics and another to launch wars on each others, any act of violence for any reason should be forbidden by the LF party members. When Aounists & HA burned tyres, the LFers protested democratically and were dragged into fights cause of the army’s incompetence, they did not go armed ( except in Aoun’s photoshop pictures) and starting shooting on people, they were shot at instead.

3- It is becoming a trend that we got shot at and just move on as if nothing happened. The minister of justice is close to the LF, make use of him !!

4- Dont get all carried away when i critisize Geagea, i am 10000% sure none of you expected such a PR from him, but i found it very misplaced and very bad in its timing …

Finally, May Pierre R.I.P and may god be with his family ..

Filed under: Editorials, Lebanon, Political
Posted by N10452 on 09.17.08 @ 9:50 pm | 27 Comments

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27 Comments. Add your own...

1. g_cedar | September 17th, 2008 at 10:20 pm

Frangieh did say that he would wait for an investigation and a judicial process for those responsible…I am sure that DSG will agree as well. It is up to the legal authorities in the first place to investigate and refer any responsible parties to stand trial based on the evidence against them. Now, if nothing happens, then I would agree that DSG would have to address the issue then.
2. nora | September 17th, 2008 at 10:36 pm

enno iza kel marra badna “nrawe2a ya chabeb” aymata badna “nfou3 ya chabeb”? ma khalas hal dam toli3 3ala l ras min bi nazzelo? nese y2elna “lebnen bi alf khe.yr ya chabeb”…

chahid wara chahid w ba3dna ma7alna aw bel a7ra 3am nerja3 la wara… da3se na2sa wara da3se na2sa? (إلى أين؟) w ajwe2 eno mnef2a3 PC w menfakir 7alna medre chou tle3na hkina… w hek enno bi kel se2a!!

e walla ya N, mouda w derje w ma lhey2a newyin ydarjo gheyra… mabsoutin fiya m3aydin fiya ajallak.

great points indeed bas badak min yesma3… “a bon entendeur salut!” ktir hal jemle leb2etloun lately… chi neyim chi ma hebeb you3a chi ghayboube bi 2ouwwe…

3endak nes 7eba tet3allam w ma3am ykhalouwa, 3endak nes we2if l zaman 3endoun w mektfiyin bi 3elmeton, w 3endak nes 3asa t3allem… w ma hada re7 yet3alam.

achtar chi ynahewcho ba3ed.

e alla yer7am trabak ya bachir…
3. Mark Quebec | September 18th, 2008 at 12:08 am

N Thanks for posting the story! Usually I check the LF official but I don’t get arabic a lot… not in the mood to concentrate… so thks for letting us know how pierre died!
4. Mickel | September 18th, 2008 at 1:27 am

The thing is that if these incidents were actually investigated and people were held accountable for their actions, then we wouldn’t have them anymore.

But that’s not how it is in Lebanon, unfortunately.

They killed Riyad Khattar.
Nothing happened

They killed the two Kataeb in Zahle.
Nothing happened.

…

So Youssef Frangiyeh saw that, and knew that he was going to get away with his crime.

They all ask for justice to be made, and for an investigation and all that.
W byeje darake “bi bechir bl te7ti2″ then everything gets swept under the rug.
That’s what’s going to happen here.

Alla yer7am Pierre… what else can we say.
5. Che | September 18th, 2008 at 2:11 am

I disagree with the some of the analysis portraying Samir Geagea as if he didn’t care about the loss of Martyr Pierre Isaac.

In fact, Samir Geagea has been extremely wise by his reaction to the incident. Let’s not forget that the aggression has been going against the Lebanese Forces from its inception. More than ever, the aggression has intensified because the only person in this rotten region who entered jail in defense of his principles and values is Samir Geagea. He has been diligently at work to reorganize the Lebanese Forces that was in total disarray for more than ten years.

Second, any person who joins the Lebanese Forces is by default at risk from all the animals that surround us, including those mother fuckers, syrian-boot lickers, Al Marada, to Kawmi, the Aouni DOGS and the #1 enemy of Lebanon and the Christians, Hezbollah.
Those thugs will try in vain at every possible opportunity to confront the Lebanese Forces by all means including threats and killing.

Let’s face it, the Lebanese Forces are gaining ground and pissing off all those thugs.

Long Live the Lebanese Forces.
Long Live Samir Geagea.
6. Rima | September 18th, 2008 at 3:33 am

Dear Mickel

Haydeh sharieet el ghab…when the rule of law and justice are absent, expect people to claim their rights by their own hands…that is how civil wars start…the sad thing, if it happens Syria will be waiting on the doorstep to act like the fireman…so sad
7. Rambo | September 18th, 2008 at 3:38 am

N, it seems that they will never learn.
8. Mickel | September 18th, 2008 at 3:53 am

You’re right Rima

We shouldn’t give Syria the opportunity to get back in, because if they do then they’re staying for good.
9. Rima | September 18th, 2008 at 4:40 am

Since I was a child I never understood what is the CAUSE OF Marada.For god’s sake, what do they want to achieve in Lebanon?
I mean what are their ideals, hopes, political strategies apart from supporting that le petit Suleiman el zghir? Who really follows him?
10. M | September 18th, 2008 at 8:13 am

rima
sleiman franjiyyi has more supporters among christians than ja3ja3.
first explain to us what are the lf goals and aims and strategies.
11. othello | September 18th, 2008 at 10:02 am

Ok guys a few words….

Eno Hakim should have come out and just shouted lets go kick their A**??? is this what you guys are asking for??????

I mean no offense bass sometimes its good to look a little further than the proverbial nose….

first question to ask is WHY did this event occur NOW???

Answer is quite simple… in light of Aouns constant failure to “control” the Christian street and in light of his continuous flops, M8 see any possible rise in the LF status as a grave danger…

The mass that’s scheduled for the 21st is a constant nightmare for them because they fear a massive turnout will show that the LF, contrary to what aoun claims, is not about shal3outayn w bassli….

Anything they can do to cancel it, believe me they will do…even if it includes worst case scenarios…the word has been put out: PREVENT the mass at ANY COST….

Now I hear brothers and sisters blaming DSG for not falling into the M8 trap???????????? COME ON…..

What do you want? a call to arms? nzalo ya shabeb 7re2o l deni? and then what? what will we achieve??????

Let me remindd ALL of yuo here….in the 70s and 80s WE DID HAVE THE POWER….we were STRONG, WELL ARMED and we had it all…what did we get out of it???? backstabbings , betrayals and internal rifts….

do you think DSG is not aware of this???????? COME ON guys…..

Enough of this please…arent you ALL tired from this empty criticism??? I thought with time this would have changed….guys LOOK at the current situation…judge not from some unexisting context…judge from where we are now….

Any other reaction by DSG would have been unwise…he knows where M8 are heading and is simply avoiding it…

hope i was able to put my point through
12. othello | September 18th, 2008 at 10:05 am

One more point…

All of you bear in mind that in order to ease the Sunni/Shiite tensions, some people are more than willing to export this to the Chrisitian street…believe me we do not need this shit….

fa I would not be surprised that both parties are trying to cool things down…

Peace
13. N10452 | September 18th, 2008 at 11:00 am

Ahla khayye Othello and am glad to see your feedback …

I would have fully understood your point of view had the event occured in different circumstances … You know problems will erupt when u wanna hang posters for an LF mass or pics of Hakim near a Marada office.

From what i heard, the LFers were being harassed and did VERY WELL by reporting it to the police & intelligence, bass ya khayye lachou rej3o ra7o wou ma3oun mouref2o la Habib ??

I am asking all those questions because Hakim said it was not political and this is wrong ! how can it be not political ??

And why didnt we start those reconciliations min zamen ya othello ?? and stop any try of moving the fight into our regions ?? mazbout 2amma la2 ??

I am not saying lets agree with Aoun, but lets meet ya khayye .. ma32oul Aoun meets Nasrallah, Geagea meets Jumblatts wou Geagea wou Aoun cant freaking meet once ??

Why do i wanna cool things down when people r killing my supporters ?? bring them to justice .. open a lawsuit ..

Bass from what i am reading, hay2itto el 7a2 3layna wou 3am minsakkir el khabriyye … check Habib’s PR wou Hakim’s PR … fi chi mich zabit !
14. danny | September 18th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

N,

Totally misplaced criticism! Che and Othelo great analysis and in having the pulse of the moment!

It WAS not political!How could it be? SF is nothing but a spoiled feudal lord…a mafioso! He has no inkling of politics. The LF have been trying to calm the Christian side for a while. I think DSG is more than astute in his reaction. What’s your alternative???Escalate? Do you want the blood of the next “martyrs” on your conscience?
If any one of the LF-ers want to support a strong, independent and democratic country then show your support by coming down to Jounieh on September 21st to honour the blood and sacrifices of the REAL Martyrs.

Let’s show them the true force of LFs. Let’s show then an intellectual, refined, articulate and democratic group.

Finally, criticizing just at every instance to prove a “point” is totally counterproductive!
15. Ra'fat | September 18th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

Did Geagea show up at the funeral?
16. N10452 | September 18th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

Danny,
Laken el shabben li meto 2 years ago shot by a Marada militant was also a nonpolitically driven incident ??

How about the Kataeb members shot bi Zahle ?? kamen nonpolitical ??

Fassroule bass how the HELL is that non political !!

LAKEN li 2atalo Pierre Gemayel NON POLITICAL TOO ?? zo3ran feltene 2awwassou 3al taree2 ??
17. danny | September 18th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

N,

What is politics in Lebanon. Protecting your Mafia turf??

Please do not compare the martyrs from Kamal Jumblat to Bashir to Pierre and others…

The Murders in Zahle, Bsharri and others are just that: MURDERS!!The murderers(who are all known) should be put away…

My point is how to counteract these barbarians?

DSG has laid out an astute plan and the Lebanese Forces are trying to practice democracy in a f’n jungle!

To an independent and neutral observer DSG seems to be the only “politician” that has been making sense the past three years!!

Just FYI, i am not a LF member and never have been one.
18. nora | September 18th, 2008 at 3:24 pm

lei fi chi bi hal balad NON POLITICAL? ma 3am efham hal falsafe w hal te7lil?
enno hol keloun keno 3am yel3abo counter w 7abo yjarbouwa in real life …?

another martyr who goes down into the pages of our history 2 b remembered only in anniversaries! ya geagea ya aoun ya franjye ya masi7iye; what did u really give our martyrs 2 merit such an ultimate sacrifice from them?

lei ya aoun w ya geagea ma btetle2o w betkhalsouna men samekon kel wahad men meyle. byerja3 bi 2ellak bil itasalat l gher moubachara? ya khaye le ma fiya tkoun “moubachara” for once?

for gods sake kermel hal m3attarin yale l barghache bas tmout byen2asaf 3leya aktar menoun. 7esso 3a damkoun ba2a ya masi7iye w w3ou la masla7et l masi7iye walaw mara bi t.iz hal 3omer. “sorry”.

No “l lbalad manno bi alef kher ya chabeb” … l balad kel ma 2elo la wara. l balad bi alef eh bas not kher chi tene.

YOU just can’t stop blamin everyone but by no means blaming urselves, YOU wait for miracles to occur, to take us out of the situation that u located yourselves n us in.

instead of doin anything helpful and encouraging to change things around u cant stop talking n actin trash not to say sh.it.

I do believe in miracles bas fi chi 2esmo “tachabous”; w bi hal “tachabous” yale m3abba bi kel wahad menkoun NOOO MIRACLES WON’T COME. With all this “abhorrence” n “hate” l 3ajibe bi 7ad zeta btensa chou me3neta 3ajibe.

let us all unite together, disregarding our disagreements n our minor quarrels n shift towards a wealthy n an improved Lebanon of the dreams of Bachir who died watching his dreams split up into disarray and chaos.

La mayrou7 dam hal chouhada di3an, kermel hal ensen l rkhis bi hal balad… yale kel ma elkoun betrakhsoulo bise3ro la man2oul sar “balech” kermel hal nazif yale ma re7 ta3erfo twa2fou, ttef2o. haje kel wahad menzewe bi zewye w batikh ykassir ba3do. chatrin tontro ba3doun 3ala kelme men hon w tosri7 men hounik… n then bi balich l racha2 3an jdid. Dharo w dahro l balad w dahrouna men hal douwweme. Treko hal chouhada terte7 bi ma2abera w haj tzido 3leyon.

enno even if its a sin choufo ba3ed w khalsouna. kel iyemkoun khataya bi khataya khtou chi marra khatiye tenfa3o la hal balad l m3attar w tenfa3 hal nes yale damoun seyib… n in this case fikoun te3terfo bi khatiyetkoun w damirkoun merte7. n am more than sure 7atekhdo l”7alle”!!

kelo bi nahwish fina 3ala l tali3 wel nezil w bel akhir mnou2af men za2efloun kel wahad men zewito. w iza t3attalna mennahwish bi ba3ed unfortunately.

M A S K H A R A lal apogee. W « a bon entendeur salut » !!
19. Rima | September 18th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

“Please do not compare the martyrs from Kamal Jumblat to Bashir to Pierre and others…

The Murders in Zahle, Bsharri and others are just that: MURDERS!!The murderers(who are all known) should be put away…”

Lah ya danny heik nazaata…shou yaani laman bikoun el katil zaaim we say martyrs lamman bikounou mich zouama we say murders…
If you die because you represent a CAUSE…WE CALL IT MARTYRDOM…

I can tell…the 14th of March are not in good shape anymore…haydeh ekhereit el tanezouleit
concessions after concessions hatta ma ysir civil war…tayyeb ok…salmou hal balad la hassan nassrallah 2awa zalameh we khalssouna ba2a
20. danny | September 18th, 2008 at 4:01 pm

Please Rima do not get it the wrong way. Let’s not parse the hair…

Let’s all agree then everone who dies in Lebanon is a martyr!

“The term martyr (Greek μάρτυς martys “witness”) is most commonly used today to describe an individual who sacrifices their life (or personal freedom) in order to further a cause or belief for many.”…

Ok we’re done!

Also, I do not consider making decisions by DSG with the idea of keeping the civil peace in mind; concessions.

Do you guys want change? Then VOTE for the one that would represent you most…

If LF is the party then join in and effect change from within. Elections are six months away; let’s see who’s got it!!

Bullets never change anything…It adds to the misery called Lebanon
21. Rima | September 18th, 2008 at 4:39 pm

Danny
thank you so much for the definition…but in my humble opinion, this definition applies to zahle victims and to Ishak as well…they were murdered coz they belong to a party that represent a noble cause: a free lebanon…They were killed while doing their duties as part of their political parties whether in a meeting in beit el kataeb or hanging a Poster…I respect these guys coz personnally I don’t dare do that…It takes a lot of courage to hang a poster in a Marada stronghold…after all, The Martyr is in the eye of the beholder…

I often agree with your opinions…this is an exception

Cheers
22. Mickel | September 18th, 2008 at 9:10 pm

Danny,

Why did LFers in the North get shot? Wasn’t it because of their POLITICAL affiliation?

If that guy in Zahle wanted to simply kill two people, why didn’t he shoot his neighbor?
He shot the Kataeb members because of their political beleifs. Right?

And now, they shot this guy because he’s an LFer.

That’s why it’s political!

I’m not saying that Hakim should’ve made an inflamatory speech. I just think his PR was too soft.
23. danny | September 18th, 2008 at 11:40 pm

Mickel and the rest…

We agree to disagree on this one…

Cheers
24. danny | September 18th, 2008 at 11:41 pm

Oh…to answer the title question: NEVER judging from some of the comments here.
25. Son of Ehden | September 19th, 2008 at 12:59 am

I will not sit here and point fingers to anyone. Alla Yirham kill al mawta. At the end of the day, I feel very sad that we lost two Christian lives. What’s even more sad is that the fight broke out about posters. Ya haram, human life has no value in our beloved country. I am sure that Frangieh has some thugs but we have thugs on all sides.
I am glad to see a responsible reaction from both sides. It wasn’t perfect but it was responsible.
Wake up and see, we keep fighting each other and we are losing our presence in the country and we are losing our young men who are constantly fleeing the country they love most. The same country that our great ancestors died defending it so we can still be here today and remain free in our homeland.
The christian blood is too precious to be lost over posters.
Lets look beyond our differences as the common threats should unite us rather then divide us…
May God bless you all…
26. selim | September 19th, 2008 at 11:24 am

Ok guys you got to understand smth most 8 m parties depend on the chaotic state that Lebanon is in at the moment…Like ssnp,amal last but no least h.a.
in order to get their financial and weapon supplies from their allies…
Let’s get one thing straight we don’t want things to escalate between Christians… as l.b.f. our main concern is to defend the Christian presence in Lebanon [even dumb Christians]
How I see it we already convinced a huge part of the Lebanese community to feud with Syria…
Now I think its about time to start convincing them to ally ourselves with Israel…
That move will be a fatal blow to h.a. Iran and Syria…
27. Rima | September 19th, 2008 at 3:53 pm

Son of ehden

Chapeau bas