Zahle incident : Will we ever learn ? at The Ouwet Front: A Lebanese Forces Blog

Zahle incident : Will we ever learn ?

Posted by N10452

I still stand at what i posted since the start concerning this incident and how it was treated and i still believe the original incident was not politically-related as it was portrayed.

I will try to make my post short, and i hope i’ll convince those attacking me of my point of view, that was shared by Sami & Amine in the past few days. Sami was enraged on Sunday but did lower his tone the next day.

Back to the original incident, i will tell you what i heard from people who were there and witnessed the shooting.
After the ceremony was over, Sami and other Kataeb officials left and the army decided to leave as well … the kataeb house was left with no armed presence and this is where El Zouki got into a fight with some supporters and then went to his car, picked up his machine gun and started shooting at people calmly and in cold blood. He was in no rush and one of the victims had 13 bullets removed of its body !!
He fled after that to an unknown destination.

There is no proof whatsoever so far about an organized crime, or him evacuating his family, or even about Hezbollah pulling him away to the South ! Honestly this is an insult to anyone’s intelligence !! Why the hell would Hezbollah get involved in that ?? What interest does he have in sticking his nose in such affairs ??

On the contrary, he d be happy to see us Christians fight .. so with all due respect, this whole HA story is Bullshit ..
If HA has him, he will deliver him for sure .. 3asfouren bi 7ajar wa7ad ..

Now concerning Skaff, that is the only aspect in that whole incident that deserves some attention .. because regardless of whether it was politically-oriented as some are claiming or not, what made things worse was Skaff’s response .. He almost accused himself of hiding the criminal and started defending him, and this is where things got ugly ! Skaff’s arrogance enraged many Kataeb members, surprisingly the Old Kataeb generation, who wanted to avenge their martyrs’ death.

I heard this from inside Kataeb sources, however there was an agreement on staying away from such reactions, because they cannot but harm us and maybe drag us into a Christian-Christian fight which we dont need right now.

How do we benefit if we react in a violent way ??? How does it serve our interests as Christians and as Kataeb ??
As for the famous quote that everyone interpreted in a very wrong way !

“chou baddoun ya3emlo el Kataeb halla2 ??? bihoujo wou ba3den ma bye2dro ya3emlo chi !”

Yes they cannot do anything, because we are no more in the Syrian era, we are part of this government and this state and those security forces that cannot protect us from such criminals and thugs !! We cannot but rely on the security forces and that puts us in a vicious circle !!

Remember Matn elections btw Amine & Khoury ya shabeb ! why did Amine lose ? because we need the constitutional council to cancel some votes and there is no such council because OUR ALLIES dissolved it !!

The biggest responsability is on the security forces here ! and unfortunatelly Kataeb are to blamed as well for not having any security or precautions from such incidents which unfortunatelly are highly frequent lately ..

Dont get me wrong again ! Skaff wa7ad 7ayawen kharjo chane2 for how he reacted, as well as the criminal ! but its no more our job as political militants to do it, its the job of the government we entrusted with our votes and our lifes !!! Sheikh Pierre was part of this government !

We cannot but wait for justice to prevail, pressure the security forces & Skaff to punish the criminal, and most importantly not allow our allies from exploiting those poor people’s death to score points ( read Hariri, Jumblatt & Michel Mouawad’s reactions).

Back in 1982, they killed Bashir Gemayel .. few days later Sabra & Chatilla massacre occured.
We polluted Bashir’s image, Kataeb’s image, LF’s image because of that horrible massacre and more people remember it more than Bashir’s death !

Leaders are there to control the masses and act based on their interest, not react instinctively !
Remember the two LFers Frangieh’s supporter killed … how did Hakim react ?? does anyone remember ?

Filed under: Critiques, Lebanon, Political
Posted by N10452 on 04.24.08 @ 11:34 pm |

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27 Comments. Add your own...

1. Fuziyad | April 24th, 2008 at 11:52 pm

Ya N ya 3ammé….elie skaff himself said that Joseph Zouki called him before the shooting, not saying that it means skaff told him to shoot but it shows that the murder has something political…

Ba3den zouki was from baas party and certainly had good connections in bekaa with the hezbos, adding to this he was a thug and everyone knows who controlls the criminality in the bekaa…then would like to know where zouki went after the shooting? back to mama?? he had to escape and the only safe places to hide are in hezboland or in syria…given he most probably had connections with both he certainly requested his help. When it is being said hezbos helped him escape it doesn’t mean hassouna came himself on his mabylette to save zouki, some thugs who have a safe heaven in hermel or in south lebanon came to help him out escaping either because they had personnal relation with him or because they were asked to do so through people linked to skaff….

I have nothing to proove me this is the way things happenned but it really makes sense…
2. Tony|ouwet | April 25th, 2008 at 1:28 am

Samir Geagea would never say something that hes not sure about.

Hes not like michel aoun who showed the LF picture shooting then turned out to be fake.

Who knows maybe he has some secret sources who knows by for a fact he wouldnt say it if hes not sure about it.

Time will reveal all, all we have to is wait and see what happend kelshi bi wa2to helo.

And N Out of respect its April 24 out of respect it will be nice if you post something abot the Armenian Genoside.
3. Anonymous | April 25th, 2008 at 3:53 am

walla ya N I think you caught the Michel Aoun virus… 3am tonfoud idek min kell madik, wou hay2tak sayir souré andabouré.
I don’t know what prompted this but good luck… ma3 hek tefkir eh walla el balad rayi7 min khara la akhra
4. Marco (Quebec) | April 25th, 2008 at 4:31 am

ONE FOREVER WORD

“NEVER”

WILL WE LEARN….:(
5. Ouwet | April 25th, 2008 at 6:40 am

N, I do understand you are an editor at a blog and you need to get out of line or break the rule or simply oppose the public to get attention. It is not a problem, if you repeat what everyone knows, people are not going to visit your blog but you can’t use this technique with sensetive issues like this. I understand Hariri, Geagea, Jumblat and his MPS, even Gemayel using the incident to gain some political points or to use it to put pressure on the opposing Christians but I can’t allow myself to accuse the brother of the victim using his brother’s assassination for political reasons.
Here are some of his words,

لقد سمعنا الكثير من التحليلات التي تقول إن هذه الحادثة فردية بينما انتم تعتبرونها سياسية بإمتياز؟

كيف يسمح البعض بالقول إنها جريمة فردية وهي حصلت بين سليم عاصي ابن ال75 سنة ونصري الماروني الإعلامي البالغ من العمر 50 سنة من جهة والمجرمين الذين يبلغان من العمر 30 سنة من جهة أخرى. وهنا أشير الى أن جوزيف الزوقي خرج منذ 3 سنوات من السجن بعد قضائه 13 سنة بجريمة قتل أندره صليبا، لم يحصل أي خلاف بين القاتلين والضحايا. وهنا أسأل: هل مرور الجناة مدججين بالسلاح أمام احتفال معلن عنه لإفتتاح بيت الكتائب في حوش الزراعنة أمر شريف؟ وهل إنتظارهما بعد الحادثة السيارة الأخرى التي أمّنت لهم الفرار حالة فردية؟

وهنا أشير الى أن النائب سكاف كان قد رفع أكثر من دعوى قضائية على شقيقي نصري الذي كان يواجهه بحقائق الأمور في زحله والذي كان تلقى الكثير من التهديدات بالقتل من الجناة أنفسهم. لذلك على الوزير سكاف تسليم الجناة لإثبات براءته خصوصاً انه تبين لنا بعد الجريمة ان أهالي المجرمين قد غادروا المدينة قبل 3 أيام من حصول الحادثة.
6. Johnny.B | April 25th, 2008 at 8:33 am

N,

take a break bro … go to some spa or something, clear the stress .. and then come back …
7. N10452 | April 25th, 2008 at 8:34 am

Ouwet,
If this is what u understood by reading my posts, i suggest u dont read it anymore … and honestly you are one living proof of why we are getting screwed as Christians ..

No one is paying me to post here .. yet some people think ma 3ande chaghle wou 3amle 2ella get attention .. i post what i think and all i ask is for people to read seriously and not give me this bullshit u just did ..

The crime was not planned .. there are no results that prove that till now .. so 7eje ba2a tonzeer 3al fade ..

No one is accusing his brother of whatever .. but the issue should not have been politized that way .. and i gave u the example of the 2 Lfers killed and how hakim reacted … 2elet barke btistaw3eb el fekra … but apparently u reply withtout even reading !
8. N10452 | April 25th, 2008 at 8:35 am

JohnyB,
Have a coffee and re-read what i wrote and understand what i am saying ..

Mich kel chi reactions wou revenge …
9. Johnny.B | April 25th, 2008 at 8:42 am

no one is mentioning reactions and revenge, all am saying is that this is not a personel incident … that’s all … it wasplanned from before .. because what personal could be present between a 30 year old criminl and two old men trying to stop a fight? not just that but some have evidence that he was smuggled to bekaa and then to the south … evidence that it’s not personal are stronger than evidence that its personal… if you wanna be neutral as you’re assuming, I suggest just stating facts for the time until the ti72i2 is finished …

tichrab ma3eh ? kam ma3la2et sikkar ? LOL
10. appo | April 25th, 2008 at 11:04 am

N,
when Dahr el Ain crime Happened in 1st July, Hakim was still in jail. this i remember very well. therefore, i also remember that shabeb el ouwet bi daher el ain wanted to build a small “Mazar” in the place where the criminal killed our martyrs toni issa and aziz saleh, but later Hakim rejected the idea because of the sensetive situation in North with Frangieh after the election…
back to your article, yes Hizbullah and Baath party are involved in this well planned crime, and i beleive the criminal was currently in Syria with his family…
another incident happen at the same time, Salim Aoun go to blame some LF youth attacking him, it’s funny really how this no body talk about… all this is done to let the security forces busy in deferent places during the crime is happening so they can run away….
11. Tarek | April 25th, 2008 at 11:55 am

N, I don’t know if it was planned or not … However I personally doubt that HA or Skaf were involved in the planning as such crime can harm them. I personally think that the man who might be an SSNP or a Baath supporter who hated Kataeb just planned this with SSNP or Baath and some of his thugs friend (who might be HA or other’s thugs) … this is just my opinion however, it’s best to wait for the investigations.
12. Ouwet | April 25th, 2008 at 1:58 pm

N,
Please don’t blame me or “people like me” for the division of the Christians. Just like you have the right to criticize the Lebanese Forces under the domain “ouwet.com” I should have the right to criticize your words and methods on your blog. I know the post was waiting moderation and you allowed my words to come up on the board, but I don’t see why you insulted me and didn’t give any attention to the point I was trying to raise.

Let me rephrase my idea, Elie Marouni is the brother of one of the victims. Elie Marouni, when asked if the incident was personal or political and planned for, answered with the quote I posted above in Arabic font. He insisted that the incident was NOT personal. I think, Elie Marouni, as the head of Iklem Zahli el Kataebi have more information and facts regarding the incident then we do. It’s also hard to believe that he is using his brother’s blood to gain political attention or to score against Skaff or the opposition in general.
13. Anonymous | April 25th, 2008 at 3:07 pm

اطلب ما تريد لكن اوقف الانتخابات. فرد جعجع “سلموا لي على الجنرال وقولوا له خلص ما يعتل هم”.
(سركيس نعوم :”ميشال عون حلم ام وهم” 1992 ص 49)

This is what SG told some army officers sent by Aoun to beg him to stop presidential elections in 1988… We all know how grateful Aoun was!!!

Inta el Kbir ya hakim…Kbir, kbir
14. mountain | April 25th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

w meen ail inno al mashkal ma kain mkhattatlo.
nsina bi 3ahd al i7tilaill al souri kif kainit marrat al dawli tifti3il mashaikil iddaim maraikiz al intikhaib bas tatjammi3 shabaib w t7otton bil 7abes w ttali3on ba3d al intikhabait so that they will lose votes??
kil shi wairid, lets wait for the investigations to be finished.
w baadain, when someone escapes, he runs to a place where they can protect him,, w meen fi a2rab lal zouki gher skaff? isn’t it probable that he directed him to his allies??
15. Arze | April 25th, 2008 at 4:37 pm

tonny! Samir Geagea is always sure abot what he says! lool ! Specially when he said the president Will fall in 2 week !

Give me A break ! Geagea now a saint !!?

N People are now affiliating a car accident to political stuff….
Young people are thirsty …they want blood they want war man …It totaly normal ….they affiliate this stupid accident to political stuff
16. Tony|ouwet | April 25th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

Car accident??? Its obviouse what it was

Samir geagea in politics in information not something for him self to do im talking about pieces of information aw evidence etc…

Unlike ure general who is sure about everything right

Ekher wahad betrok lebnen!!
LF photoshoped images!!!
About the Graves???
17. N10452 | April 25th, 2008 at 9:55 pm

Ouwet,
“N, I do understand you are an editor at a blog and you need to get out of line or break the rule or simply oppose the public to get attention”

I apologize but i dont do that .. i write what i find wrong or right and share my opinions with readers from all parties … there is no rule to simply oppose ..

I am sorry u feel that way ..
18. N10452 | April 25th, 2008 at 9:58 pm

And by the way, my info are from inside Kataeb sources and eye witnesses of the accident and no proof whatsoever about a pre-planned attack or a politically driven one ..

Guys, i repeat a personal fight does not mean he just wanted to kill that specific person cause he hated him .. what i am saying is that it was a reaction from the person on the spot cause of things he was told maybe .. or cause he s a thug … Elias Skaff did not send him there to kill people .. i dont think he s that idiot
19. N10452 | April 25th, 2008 at 10:09 pm

Appo,
U r right i dont think Geagea was yet out but still the LF did not ask its followers to avenge their death … or threatened to take the proper measures, even though we all know what they are capable of ..
20. Patriot | April 25th, 2008 at 10:33 pm

N

No need to justify
You are posting and everybody expresses their point of view
problem in lebanon is that people are not used to differenciate facts from political propaganda and most of lebanese don’t like to switch to the other chanel just to watch what the other point of view is
21. N10452 | April 25th, 2008 at 11:42 pm

Patriot,
I am not justifying .. i am rectifying
22. a5watz | April 26th, 2008 at 9:53 am

N. could u @ least mention that the fugitive should be brought to justice ?!!!?
23. TrueLeb | April 26th, 2008 at 11:31 am

“Al bahrou min eddamikom wal 3adowou min wara`ikom ….
I give emile lahoud 2 weeks and he will surrender….”
walla your hakim is a man of his word . he was a man of his word only one time : when he was ordered to bomb the presidential palace.
now you want to tell me that the ewet care about the presidency and Christians? you want to tell me that ewet believe in the lebanese army?
please anyone mention to me one fight … just ONE FIGHT ewet geagea did and was for the benefit of lebanon or the Christians.
ewet geagea have one goal even if it lead to the destruction of Christians . i guess we all know what that goal is .
24. Michele | April 27th, 2008 at 9:42 am

Hmmmmm! When talking about a man of his word, directly i remember when a certain general said back in the 90’s that he would be the last one to surrender even if he had to fight with kitchen knives!!!!!!
25. Michele | April 27th, 2008 at 9:43 am

PS” For the stupid Aounis, in case u have not guessed who was that General who said that; well it’s the man that u are following blindly like a sheep…
26. Michele | April 27th, 2008 at 9:45 am

Ok ok i admit that sometimes I do forget that you Aounis have such a low IQ, so i’m gonna be more clear:

The general who said that and that u follow so blindly is the General Aoun…

Get it NOW????
27. Michele | April 27th, 2008 at 9:46 am

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm:

Ok last try….

It’s the deserter, General MICHEL AOUN!!!!!!

I hope that this time u will get it.

Ouuuff that was hard.