19 Comments. Add your own...

• 1. Fou2ad | September 3rd, 2008 at 6:18 pm

  I’m sorry you are wrong, aoun had army units fighting with him, he had army soldiers trained in army tactics and using army weaponry and equipment, all his army officers were trained for three years bil madresse el 7arbié, aoun is an army commander who earned his rank.
  And instead of ranting, show some links to those archives that show how well the LF treated army prisoners.
  Aoun did not make those presidential elections because elections would be controlled by syrians, and when the fate of a country’s existence is at stake, technicalities are irrelevant.
  And HA killed the officer by accident, the LF made massacres to the ARMY, and massacres are not done by accident or by self defence.

• 2. N10452 | September 3rd, 2008 at 6:47 pm

  Fou2ad,
  The mistakes are all over your reply i am sorry for you my friend .

  Aoun had army units fighting for HIM, but did not have the Lebanese army fighting for him, so again army units not abiding by the LA principles are more of an armed group working on their own, meaning militia ..

  Aoun earned his rank ??? Lawou ma min Bachir Gemayel, Aoun would have remained the low officer he has always been …

  I ll show you videos of how well the LF treated the army, and the large seminars they held for them as well ..

  Aoun did not make presidential elections because Syria refuse that he d be president … go correct ur facts !

  The LF made massacres to the militiamen following Aoun, not to the army … i condemn them but thats the truth and its very different from whats portrayed ..

• 3. Fou2ad | September 3rd, 2008 at 7:43 pm

  “Aoun had army units fighting for HIM, but did not have the Lebanese army fighting for him, so again army units not abiding by the LA principles are more of an armed group working on their own, meaning militia ..”
  >>> You say that aoun’s part of the army was not abiding by LA principles, so explain the LA principles please, do you mean that they should be with the syrian controlled part of the army for you to recognize them as army units instead of militiamen. And what do you mean they are fighting for HIM, if you mean that taking and following orders from the commander of the army without question is wrong, well I didn’t know the army was a democracy.

  “Aoun earned his rank ??? Lawou ma min Bachir Gemayel, Aoun would have remained the low officer he has always been …”
  >>> Bachir did not even reach the presidency for one day, so I don’t see how he could have possibly promoted anyone in the army(you probably just made this up didn’t you?).He earned his rank through years of fighting, where he was in the middle of sabra camp before the civil war while your hakim was playing his electric guitar. But you are implying that bachir, your great lebanon loving leader bachir, was confident enough in aoun to make him a commander in the army?

  “I ll show you videos of how well the LF treated the army, and the large seminars they held for them as well ..”
  >>> So show me the links already!
  And you wrote in your post: “Murders occured from both sides”, so why are you contradicting yourself in your comment?

  “Aoun did not make presidential elections because Syria refuse that he d be president … go correct ur facts !”
  >>> I know my facts, I was there, the syrians only asked aoun to be president once, in the early 90’s when he was in France, via hariri, and he refused that offer.

  “The LF made massacres to the militiamen following Aoun, not to the army … i condemn them but thats the truth and its very different from whats portrayed ..”
  >>> Like I said, these were army units, not militiamen.

• 4. Rodge | September 3rd, 2008 at 7:45 pm

  and they were acting as a militia.

  If someone had the opportunity to pass on their checkpoints on a daily basis, like I used to do between Ain Remmaneh and Achrafieh back then, he will realize how they were treating people.
  also they have made many bad things, and you ahould have seen the way they treated the LF detainees. Anyone here knows the guy called “Al Hanoun”?? he has created new styles of torture.
  Is this an army behavior??

• 5. paul | September 3rd, 2008 at 8:05 pm

  an army is an army only if it represents all the population .

  as long as this is not the case, it remains a militia.

• 6. N10452 | September 3rd, 2008 at 8:10 pm

  Fou2ad,
  Fighting against the syrian controlled regions ma hek ??? bi Dbayyeh wou bil port wou bi Adma wou bil 2lay3at ???

  As for Bachir promoting him, well apparently he got the wrong feedback about him, but he is majorily responsible for Aoun’s early promotions ..

  I did not contradict myself, i said massacres occured but the LF did treat on MANY occasions the army captured as their brothers & sisters ..

  Aoun had a militia which he brainwashed to make them believe they were fighting for a noble cause while they were fighting for him to get to presidency ..

  And as a result the finest army officers got killed and the rest were jailed or kidnapped or are still in the army without any promotions ..

  I have the video tapes, i ll try to see if they are on youtube ..

• 7. Fou2ad | September 3rd, 2008 at 9:09 pm

  “Fighting against the syrian controlled regions ma hek ??? bi Dbayyeh wou bil port wou bi Adma wou bil 2lay3at ???”
  >>> This was all after the LF entered the taef agreement with the syrians and attacked aoun. But ofcourse you would rather shoot yourself than admit that the LF first opened fire.

  “As for Bachir promoting him, well apparently he got the wrong feedback about him, but he is majorily responsible for Aoun’s early promotions..”
  >>> Somehow I knew you were going to say something like that.

  “I did not contradict myself, i said massacres occured but the LF did treat on MANY occasions the army captured as their brothers & sisters ..”
  >>> Yep, still waiting for those damn links.

  “Aoun had a militia which he brainwashed to make them believe they were fighting for a noble cause while they were fighting for him to get to presidency ..”
  >>> Again with aoun baddo elkirsé! Wlik 2iltillak 3arado 3alé el ri2ésé bi fransa w rafad, w da77a bil ri2ésé bi 2ittifé2 el daw7a.
  It’s like you’ve been programmed to say that every single thing aoun has done in his entire military and political career is for the presidency.

  “And as a result the finest army officers got killed and the rest were jailed or kidnapped or are still in the army without any promotions ..”
  >>> Yes, they got killed and kidnapped by the syrian army as well as BY THE LF, as a result of the military and political alliance of the LF and all the other march 14 people with the syrians.

  If the army is split that does not mean it’s no longer an army. If only one part of the army was fighting for their country, that means they were just a smaller weaker army, but still the army.

• 8. paul | September 3rd, 2008 at 9:50 pm

  the army was to several brigades divided, and each brigade according to religious affiliation.

  the division was the only way to prevent massacres between the soldiers.it was clearly no army, it was militia.and militia is not always something negative,unless the leader is addicted to power or if his name is aoun.

• 9. Ra'fat | September 3rd, 2008 at 10:09 pm

  Name 1 good thing Aoun has done for Lebanon on his own?(And no the answer is not into elouwet kharabtou el balad bla bla bla)

• 10. nnh08 | September 3rd, 2008 at 11:02 pm

  First I would like to congratulate the people responsible for this forum since the posts are great and they show me that the supporters of the lebanese forces express their opinion and criticize their leadership and this in my opinion is important for the improvement of our party.

  I read the comments posted here and I want to clarify some issues raised by our brother Fou2ad.

  Fouad said “This was all after the LF entered the taef agreement with the syrians and attacked aoun. But ofcourse you would rather shoot yourself than admit that the LF first opened fire.”

  Before the taef agreement general aoun waged a battle against the lebanese forces on 14 february 1989 during this date no taef and no agreement was yet done.

  The reason for that as the general mentioned was that he wants the LA to control all the ports. When this war started samir geagea was outside lebanon so he came back quickly to stop this fight between the christians. He contacted general michel aoun and agreed on a meeting to solve this crysis. On his way the soldiers fired at his motorcade and his personal bodyguard was killed. After many calls to calm the situation he continued toi baabda and their he agreed to the demands of MA to stop this bloodshed between christians.

  Second after this incident by one month GMA declared liberation war and the LF supported him in this war.

  The liberation war was the major reason that lead to the taef agreement, since war2it al nikat al sabe3 from the arab commitee stated that the lebanese represantives(nouweb) should go to taef to make discussions in order to reach an agreement. MA signed on this paer and supported this idea fully and he even insisted on dr. tarek habchi to go when he knew that he Dr. Habchi no intentions to go taef and promised him that a la helicopter will transfer him to cyprus in order for him to take a plane to saudi arabia.

  The Lebanese forces did not give any comments on the taef agreement and even when the Ilgha war had begun samir geagea did not say anything positive or negative about this agreement. The Lebanese Forces accepted the Taef Agreement ghasben 3ana after aoun waged a war against it on 30 jan 1990, since taef agreement is not a goal for us for our major goal is to reach an agreement based on federalism and I think that you know that Fouad.

  Fouad to assure you more that aoun waged to war you could take his talks two weeks before 30 jan 1990 and you would directly know his intentions. He raised the slogan la boundoukiya fawka boundoukiyat al jaish to start preparing the people for them to accept this interchristian battle.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzMh-QgDs10&feature=related

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMvKfJx4OQ8&feature=related

  Watch these vids and check the dates under the pic to see what he was saying before 30 jan 1990

  Moreover I would like to point for you that aoun was the one making talks with the syrians. As you remeber the people used to gather in Kaser baabda in order to prevent the syrians from entering the palace since a massacre would occur. But on the night of the 12th of nov 1990 the people were told to go home even though intelligence reports stated that an attack is going to happen since elie hobeika an d assaad herdan told gma that there will be no attack and they organized a meeting for pierre rafoul with ghazi kanaan on th 13th of nov.
  This is mentioned in pierre rafouls book al general aoun al sa7wa al lubnaniya in addition to that u should know that GMA was twice in syria between 1985and 1986 as mentioned also in the book of pierre rafoul.

  Moreover don’t try to convince me that GMA was against taef bcs he wants the independence of his country since the same gma was one of the major supporters of al itife2 al thoulese and even wrote the military part in it.

  In addition to that please do not say that GMA was resisting when SG was playing the guitar since when SG was resisting the syrians GMA was playing cards with them domen ouwet al rade3 al arabiyye. And when SG was fighting for the christians in the mountain against the druze syrians and palestinians GMA was convincing amin el gemayel that the LA can not reach the areas their to help the christians.

  Finally I would like to conclude my discussion by a funny story that would prove the hypothesis that aounists byentobi2 3layoun el matal 3anze wlaw tarit.
  After ziad ghandour and ziad 2abalen were kidnapped GMA gave a press conference
  and accused Ajhize estekhbaratiye of this act. So I asked after i read this on tayyar.org my aounist friend who in his opinion killed the two ziyads and he said walaw it is known bayt chamas. I asked him could it be possible that ajhize estekhbaratiye did this he looked at me and said walaw chou 7mar enta ma32oul tfakir be hal tari2a metel l mhebil and he started laughing about what I said. Than I showed what Michel Aoun said he looked at the article for two minutes and than he said la2 ma3o 7a2 el general hayde ajhize estekhbaratiye wara el jarime.

  Tc all and congratulations for this great forum

• 11. jab | September 3rd, 2008 at 11:41 pm

  first, regards and thanks to all responsible of this free space,
  about aoun and LF, back to 1989, doesn’t matter if aoun was army leared or militia leader, it was civil war by that time and all lebaneese fighting together, what matter is the big contradiction in aoun opinions and decisions with the new situation now with HA. it is obvious that aoun have no principles, he have only one crazy dream, one goal, to become president, in 1989 and in 2008, without mentioning what he has to sell or give…after all free people like principles, and aoun have no principles

• 12. Rima | September 4th, 2008 at 3:12 am

  I have the impression that Fouad was an army officer or sthg…..

  N
  good post N we need to know some insights about these dreadful and biased accusations of the LF…

• 13. Rima | September 4th, 2008 at 3:15 am

  Fouad

  Aoun did not sacrifice the presidency in Doha as you said…ghassbin annou …shou milik bayyou el presidency…anyway everyone knows abbad ha2a….

• 14. Doc 1559 | September 4th, 2008 at 3:20 am

  Dear Rima

  Adesh abad 7a2a? w min dafa3lo ? w since when aoun 3yez massareh ?

• 15. Rima | September 4th, 2008 at 3:31 am

  Hi Doc

  from Katar…you are right mich ayezz massari akid la2nnou nahab meil el dawleh will shaaeb…bass zeyedet el kheir kheir mou heiik

• 16. N10452 | September 4th, 2008 at 10:09 am

  The next thing i should post about are testimonies by LFers on how they were treated while being captured by those so-called ‘army units’ of Aoun .. of course testimonies of the few who got back alive ..

  Barke lezim 7ada yizakro bi 7abess Kfarshima .. because Those who build the prisons for the LF in The ministry of defence probably got inspired from Aoun and his prisons ..

  ya 3ayb el shoum ..

• 17. Rima | September 4th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

  Hi all

  here is a famous quote:

  The great nations have always acted like gangsters, and the small nations like prostitutes.”
  Stanley Kubrick

• 18. N10452 | September 4th, 2008 at 6:59 pm

  You know ya Rima that Kubrick is one of my favorite producers

• 19. Global Voices Online &raq&hellip | September 5th, 2008 at 12:07 am

  [...] Owuet Front’s blogger N10452 defended the Lebanese Forces against recent claims accusing them in the past to fight against the [...]

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