75 Comments. Add your own...

• 1. esper | October 19th, 2008 at 2:34 am

  2AYNA GENERAL AL MASSI7IYIN FI AL MASHREK LIYOUDAFE3 3ANHOM HAHAHHAHAAA

• 2. Fou2ad | October 19th, 2008 at 7:30 am

  I’m not defending Iran or saying that they care about the christians, but:”extremist attacks that have increased despite months of US and Iraqi military operations” Are you kidding? The americans are the ones who are controlling the extremists who are killing the christians and are mosly sunni(by coincidence). You fail to understand that the fact that all the killing and displacement in Iraq only started happening when the american occupation was present is no coincidence, this is the way the americans want Iraq to be(if it wasn’t like this they wouldn’t be there now). Do you actually believe that sunnis and shiites are killing eachother because of some war that happened between them more than 1300 years ago and faded into oblivian?
  Do you believe that that the syrians are are able to bring into iraq hundreds of thousands of extremists and cause civil war despite the fact that the most advanced and lethal army in the world is in Iraq, while the lebanese army can stop them from bringing in extremists into lebanon and prevent a civil war?
  You have to face facts, the US army and foreign policy you know from hollywood is nothing close to reality. The greatest threat there will ever be to christians in the middle-east is the US interests.

• 3. Michele | October 19th, 2008 at 7:37 am

  Awwiyé minnak ya Esper

• 4. paul | October 19th, 2008 at 11:23 am

  Unfortunately,the Islam does not condone what not Islam is… this is the reality.may be that some are against such attacks but they dont mind and this makes them accomplices.

• 5. Dehak | October 19th, 2008 at 11:27 am

  Hi

  the Main point that fouad talked about is TRUE .
  it is the USA plan to DIVIDE IRAK into 3 regions taht si behind all the killing in irak .
  it si to divide it into .:
  a sunnite , a shiite and a kurdish one ..

  and this is being done in direct help by IRAN , SUNNITE SAUDIS and KURDISH ….

  in fact , concerning the latest mamssacres of christains in MOSUL , the USA did not even comment on it or deploy any of its 150000 strong soldiers there …WHY ????

  why do chrsitians NAIVe always think that the USA is their FREIND , is it because they are NAIVe and IGNORANTs ….

  those who control the USA are not EVEN CHRISTIANS ……..if you undewrstand what i mean …….
  the KURDS are the main responsbale on the LATEST MOSUL KILLING ( in association with samll fanatic SUNNITE FRACTIONS )).
  the USA KNEW about the atacks and know who is behind them and is silent about it ..
  wHY??? in fact we can say it si ENCOURAGING the killing of christians …to HELL with USA

  As Foud said , it is mainly the SUNNITe who are KILLING OUR PEOPLE in IRAk …
  and the theif of SOLIDERE HARIRI has STOLEN the Only Deputy that represent the small christains fractions in Lebanon….

  to the christians: if this is not enough for you to OPEN your EYEs and MINDS .

  then , i PITY you ,.

  regards
  dehak

• 6. paul | October 19th, 2008 at 11:40 am

  spare me your theories, and tell me no stories about USA and the Crusaders .

  a bit self-criticism about your religion would be here more appropriate.

• 7. Rami | October 19th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

  What can we do…… what can we say…. When sunni extremist preach that it is “halal to kill a christian”….. i hate this place

• 8. Rami | October 19th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

  Majmou3it 7awach w jehlin be hal 3alam el esleme

• 9. Mickel | October 19th, 2008 at 8:32 pm

  Fou2ad ya khabir enta.

  You showed how much you know about this issue.
  A war that faded into oblivion? Really?
  So America is controlling Bin Laden too? And telling him to curse the Shi’a??
  What about in Lebanon and how the Sunnis and Shi’a hate each other?

  The fighting in Iraq is happening not because of the U.S., it’s because Iran is pushing the Shi’a to take control of all Iraq and the Sunnis want to take back control of Iraq.

  You think that the American military is SO strong and controlls everything, but that’s not true. They are stretched thin and can’t control everything.

  Faded into oblivion..shows how smart you are.

• 10. ja3far | October 19th, 2008 at 9:11 pm

  N… am curious to know your personal opinion about the interview with Dr. geagea yesterday on aljazeera…

  salam

• 11. Fou2ad | October 19th, 2008 at 9:33 pm

  I am not mukhabarat or CIA to know what is being done behind the scenes ya Mickel, so I can’t give you any solid proof. The only way for the commoner to really know who is behind all this violence and war in Iraq is to see who benefits the most from it. Who needs an excuse to stay in Iraq(close to the oild fields)? Aren’t the americans taking advantage of the civil war by staying in Iraq on the pretext of maintaining peace? Don’t the americans say that their presence in Iraq is necessary to prevent violence from going up again?
  What happened to the potent Iraqi army and security forces that can maintain peace after the americans entered Iraq? Were they dissolved by the US or by Iran?
  How can you believe that Iraq’s neighbors are more responsible for its civil war than the foreign coutry that invaded it and is actually occupying it?
  Dehak is right, christians are naive and ignorant to think USA is their friend, but I wouldn’t expect someone called Mickel to believe that.

  PS:”A war that faded into oblivion? Really?”, Yes really, no wars have ever happened since that time, except when the americans entered Iraq that is, some coincidence huh?

• 12. ja3far | October 19th, 2008 at 9:53 pm

  Actually fou2oud you can give him few examples of events that happened in iraque to show that the americans were working on increasing the tensions between the parties…

  The video transmitted showing the execusion of sadam by an identical to al sader…

  the explosion in samerae on shia holy shrines …

  the british special forces who were caught hiding under iraqui badwins cover with explosions in shia area…

  the pro american news agency in the arab world that was working on increasing the division…

  many examples…

  salam

• 13. ja3far | October 19th, 2008 at 10:53 pm

  sadly lot of these so called muslims dont know anything about the real issue in religion … religion is simply a way to reach god… i wonder how they are reaching god this way?

  by killing and attacking christians the middle east is loosing a major part of its identity..

  christ originated in the middle east , not in the west.. what is happening to the christians is not happening only in iraque or lebanon.. these are some informations of a report i read

  The transfer of power of Bethlehem from Israel to the Palestinian Authority just before Christmas 1995 inspired a spate of articles on Bethlehem’s diminishing Christian presence. They noted that a place not long ago 80 percent Christian is now but one-third Christian. For the first time in nearly two millennia, the most identifiably Christian town on earth has lost its Christian majority. The same changes have taken place in two other famously Christian towns, Nazareth and Jerusalem. In Nazareth, Christians went from 60 percent of the population in 1946 to 40 percent in 1983. Jerusalem Christians in 1922 slightly outnumbered Muslims (15,000 versus 13,000);today, they number under 2 percent of the city’s population.

  The same applies in other parts of Israel. A report from the Galilee village of Turan quotes a Christian store owner: “Most Christians will leave as soon as we can sell our houses and shops. We can’t live among these people [Muslims] anymore.” One journalist concludes that “The Christian community in the West Bank is close to extinction.”

  Nor are Israeli-held territories unusual in this regard; Christians are fleeing from all over the Middle East. Emigration began in the aftermath of World War I and has greatly picked up in the last decade. In Turkey, Christians constituted a population of 2 million in 1920 but now only some thousands remain. So severe is the problem that the Orthodox Patriarchate in Istanbul is in danger of collapsing for lack of large enough pool of candidates. Christians earlier in this century represented about one-third of the Syrian population; now they account for less than 10 percent. In 1932, they composed 55 percent of the Lebanese population, now less than 30 percent. More than half the Christians of Iraq have left( this number have become 90 % have left). Copts began leaving Egypt in significant numbers after the 1952 revolution.

  quaran says:”ina ja3alnakoum omaman wa shou3ouban lita3arafo , ina akramakoum 3inada allah atkakoum ” . he is asking us to accept the other and learn from him.. sadly lot of muslims trasferred islam to become a title of hattered making it a discrace to everything related to humanity..

  am not trying to preash or anything .. just had these thoughts in my mind that i wanted to share..

  salam

• 14. Patrick | October 20th, 2008 at 12:28 am

  I get a little pissed off–as an American–when ignorant people get together and accuse us of being in Iraq either for the oil or to cause chaos in the Muslim world for the hell of it.

  It is well known by all news agencies, Western and Arab, that Iraq currently has an $80 billion+ SURPLUS, erego America is *paying* for the oil, and not only for the oil but for all the reconstruction going on as well.

  so why are we there? for once, why don’t you take us at our word instead of dreaming up crusader-zionist conspiracy theories: the reason we’re there is because the arab/muslim world is backwards, and as the biggest, wealthiest, most powerful nation on earth, we’re arrogant enough to think we’re going to change it.

  got it?

  as for not doing anything about the christians, you’re wrong. are you stupid or what? remember how $12 billion in cash went missing after arriving in iraq two years ago? the democrat party (the party of obama) went nuts about that wondering how in the world all that money in cash, in american hands, can just go missing. the reason they were perplexed is because they’re as blind as the people i’m responding to. you know where that money went? well i don’t know where all of it went, but at least some of it is being funneled through the finance minister in the kurdish regional government to fund christian militias in northern iraq so they can defend themselves. america can’t arm iraqi christians directly because then the christians get targeted even more, but if we do it through someone else, ok you get the idea. some of the money may also be going to funding iraqi politicians regardless of their sect who believe in having a secular state, to counteract the influence of iranian money which supports al-sadr/the mehdi army, the badr organization, etc.

  so we are doing all what we can, and by God we will succeed. i’m tired of people who think the american military is as powerful as God and can just do whatever it wants in six months “if it really wanted to.” it’s taking years, but by God we will succeed, and you know why? because we believe the backward arab/muslim culture needs to be changed every bit as much as (and more than) muslims believe it’s fine the way it is.

  got it!?!?

• 15. danny | October 20th, 2008 at 1:10 am

  #13…Cutting and pasting; and passing it on as yours is plagiarism!!!
  Please provide the link or buzz off!!

• 16. danny | October 20th, 2008 at 1:12 am

  http://www.meforum.org/article/487

• 17. Patrick | October 20th, 2008 at 2:20 am

  ja3far, anything peaceful in the qur’an is prior to muhammed becoming the leader of an army in medina and the “revelation” of surah 9:5.

  even before that, in mecca they were praying and when the pagans interrupted their prayers and ridiculed them, muhammed’s followers started fighting them and one of his followers, saad ibn abi waqqas took the camel of a jawbone and struck one of the pagans, and this is known in islamic history as the first time blood was shed in islam. and how did muhammed respond to his followers? after it was all over, he said to be patient with the unbelievers and bear with them “for a little while.” some muslims point to what he said about being patient and treating them with dignity as a sign of how he is peaceful. but in retrospect, it is clear what muhammed meant by “a little while” was the same as if he had said “til we migrate to medina, get more followers, gain power, and form an army…”

  i’m sure you are familiar with the hundreds of stories from that point onwards from alahadith (even if you accept only bukhari and muslim) and other sources like ibn ishaq, about his assassinations, battles, massacres, etc.

  i appreciate that you are against what the muslims are doing to the christians, but the problem is with the head, not the body.

  respectfully,

  - patrick

• 18. Ra'fat | October 20th, 2008 at 5:21 am

  Fou2ad and Dehak, you guys are incredibly…… Really you guys define what is wrong with the way we think. So the USA is maintaining the violence so they would eventually withdraw humiliated because the American people can’t handle the bloodshed anymore is all in their benefit. Flawless logic, one’s own defeat is in one’s own interest you guys are way too smart for me. “The definition of intelligence is the ability to make complex things seem simple, the definition of stupidity is to make simple things seem complex.” Ja3far I am a bit dissapointed that you agree with such garbage. By the way, the US did not need an excuse to go into Iraq, and DEFINITELY don’t need an excuse to stay there. The violence has messed most of the US plans in the region and has been nothing but disastrous to the Americans. Patrick, solid response.

• 19. DL | October 20th, 2008 at 5:28 am

  Doc1559

  Would you please comment on this topic?

• 20. Rima | October 20th, 2008 at 5:49 am

  Ra’fat

  Twisted logic is a major charecteristic of underdeveloped people…no wonder we are backward nations…blinded nations…sh***t nations…I wonder whether some bloggers here read their posts before sending them…so pathetic!

• 21. Michele | October 20th, 2008 at 8:37 am

  Rima, do u know ARABS is acronym for what?

  Arabs
  R
  All
  Bull
  Sh*t

  And some wonder why i refuse to be in anyway recognized as an Arab.
  Fortunately, we Lebanese have great ancestors that we should be proud of.

• 22. ja3far | October 20th, 2008 at 9:44 am

  Patrick, rafat… the american history in our region is not that bright.. America had supported taliban, al quaeda and sadam in some stages in history,… now you are telling me they learned the lesson and changed.. really i wish…, but please understand that i cannot believe that just because they are saying that … remember the documents pawel presented before getting in iraque? they were all faque… it is time that will proove if american are honest with what they say this time, or they are still going in the same cycle…

  here are some numbers and issues related to iraque :

  iraq have 115 Billion of oil barrols ( 5 times USA)
  only 80 excavated fields till now .. still plenty under ground.
  the american international affair estimates the not discovered quantities of 220 Billions barrel.
  the total value for such an oil is 50 trillion dollars on todays market.
  the new iraqui oil treaty is written by the american legislation communitie. the federal governemt in Kurdistan signed this treaty to give all the rights to the american hunt oil company..
  raises questions .. no?

  regarding what you are saying rafat about the american plans in iraque.. honestly, i dont see the image so black for them.. am sure Patrick will agree… the american forces are gathering in bases outside the major cities.. their involvement in every day battles is being reduced to the minimum.. their casualties is being reduces too..

  they have created three entities ( shias , kurds, and sunnies ) who are highly dependent on them and who will try to seek to get closer to the americans then the other groupe hopping to get more benefits… this is called the politics of “.fareq tassoud”. it is been used in our region since the persian roman empires and still being used with success…

  for me , i have placed some hopes in the americans few times and got deceived.. so i tend to be hesitant in believing them…

  i dont question if patrick is really honest in his feelings or not … but simply i dont trust the american politics in our region yet….time will show what was hidden

  salam

• 23. ja3far | October 20th, 2008 at 10:04 am

  Dear patrick…
  in related to the islamic history; am not sure about your backround and what you know about the islamic groups and sects…however, islam has been divided to several groups where each one sees things diferently…

  shias dont consider books like al Bukhari and muslim as books to follow…

  we believe that the way religion should be spread or taught is through “bi al lati hiya ahsan”.”as quran says…if you are not attacked . you are not allowed to be the agreesor; religion is not allowed to be spread by force..

  however, we should be prepared to deffend ourselves and fight for our rights against agressors..

  sadly for us, through history we were the group that was mostly attacked and massacred in the name of islam.

  At the end , all religions tell you to defend yourself…. in christianity, god tell you to have the spirit to forgive.. but at the end dont forget how much israels god was bloodly in the bible …

  salam

• 24. Michele | October 20th, 2008 at 10:45 am

  Ja3far n i quote u: “religion is not allowed to be spread by force.. ”

  Would u plz explain how come in Iran which is a Shiaa state, whenever a person converts to a different religion than Islam he gets imprisoned then executed?

  I do agree that Shiaa do tend to be more peaceful than the rest except for Hezbollah n Iran…

  You are discussing other religions perception towards violence n i’m sure that u know that Judaism n Islam r very similar in certain areas n almost have the same habits in order not to say rituals.

  I would elaborate more but this is definitely not z subject here.

• 25. ja3far | October 20th, 2008 at 11:29 am

  Michel.. i had discussed the same point with danny before.. what i said is that we are not allowed to spread the religion by force .. but we should defend our selves and our religion…

  in iran, if you are muslim you have to obey these islamic rules, if you are not the government is obliged to respect your ideology…iran is the only islamic country where you still find people who worship the fire…

  ya3ni…if a muslim man marry a christian woman for example, he is obliged to respect her believes..ie.. if she want to go to church on sunday he is not allowed to forbid her , on the contrary he is obliged to take her there…

  on the other hand, if you are a muslim you have to obey the regulation and laws of islam in your community.. in your dress and attitude.. between you and yourself you are free.. but if you want to brake the islamic law and you declare that you are considered to be a threat to your environment and surrounding..you will be punished so that you dont harm the others…
  as a muslim you are judged under islamic rules..one of these laws is that if you leave islam and declare it you should be punished…… you want to convert ,, do it but dont go spreading the news…

  still , wether you are seeing it logical or not; such a law is not applicable in iran;;; it is still debatable .. and on a personal point of view, i will be sorry if they apply it, even though i dont believe they will…

  salam

• 26. ja3far | October 20th, 2008 at 12:11 pm

  danny… i have tried , but really i am not able to understand you logic..
  u said: .#13…Cutting and pasting; and passing it on as yours is plagiarism!!!
  even though i said in that comment :
  “.these are some informations of a report i read “.”

  you keep saying you dont want to discuss with me.. and then you always tend to go into debates…
  honestly, i dont mind sharing and discussing with any one… but you tend to be very agressive in your writtings…

  you have called me all sort of names, from prick, to pig, to rat , to ahbal… i dont see there is a way to communicate this way.. i dont know if there is a culture diference between us .. and if in your culture it is normal to call each others such names..
  but u are using languages i dont accept from a person who want to communicate with me.. ino shou buzz off ? ino 3anjad dayaeteli khilee

  ino if we were on the street , i would have enjoyed going in a fight and seen who will beat the other … bass here… eather we respect each others or khaye hil 3ani…

  salam

• 27. Ra'fat | October 20th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

  Ja3far my friend again we are talking two separate things. Do I believe the US went into Iraq for the oil? absolutely, no doubt in my mind. Do I believe the US is trying to make the Iraqi government dependent on them? Absolutely, that was the whole plan from the beginning, get the US contracting/muscle to rebuild the county and get paid to do that.I am not questioning the motives, all I am saying is that any intelligent person can see how the extremists are not helping the US’s case. All the US wants in Iraq is peace so they could establish institutions, bring in consultants, and do what they do best, make money. And by the way, history needs to be taken in context, comparing what is going on in Iraq with the US support for the taliban is comparing apples to oranges. Also nothing wrong with making money at all either, it is way better than people killing each other. More and more I am starting to believe that us arabs are mere monkeys in a cage.

• 28. ja3far | October 20th, 2008 at 12:59 pm

  sorry raf’fat, most of my answer was directed to patrick, regarding the motive of the states..
  when i talked about taliban, i was mentioning how in the past US was ready to support the devil for their interests// and that i dont really believe they have changed even if they claim that
  i think we agree on most of the discussed points

  salam

• 29. Rima | October 20th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

  Hi Michele

  Maybe Arabs were not backwards during the khilafa abassiyeh hundred years ago but now they are…Actually I am so infatuated with the Arab civilisation of old days: Architecture, Arts, poetry…not anymore!!!

  By the way, last sunday was such a beautiful day in Sydney so we decided to have a small picnic in a park next to the beach. That was the first time we go there…It was full of Muslim families with veiled women…
  the araf part is when I went to the toilet in the Park and found the floor wet ..sure enough two Muslim ladies were cleaning the parsley in the toilet sink…to make Tabouleh…eh el 3ama sahih she bi areif…In my book, this is a sign of takhalouf…poor hygiene is a feature of underdeveloped countries…No need to comment more and please forgive me I don’t mean to offend anyone it is just sthg I wanted you to know…

  Cheers

• 30. Arze | October 20th, 2008 at 2:01 pm

  extremist attacks that have increased despite months of US and Iraqi military operations???????

  Man you must be really ignorant to write this…this is like when the americans defended us in the war ….when they were sending us ships to Canada !

  Even the Americans can see the truth about their own governments and yet you new Lfers cant !

• 31. Rima | October 20th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

  When are we going to stop thinking about the US as the Papa noel of Lebanese Christians?…They sent their marines as peacekeepers to help us and our friends HA fajarouhon and they are pround about it…and please ma hada yistahwein the “Aoun effect”…It damaged the Christian cause for thousand years to come with the new alliance with Iran…If the “aoun effect” takes roots in our society through al mal el nazif..eh 3ala el massihiyeh el salam…
  Cheers

• 32. Rima | October 20th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

  Danny
  Fi wahad hon bi hal blog bi yihki bil discussions wil hadarah mittel elli alla attiyoun and houweh is nthg more than a backward mortazaqa ayesh 3ala el meil el nazif …he and his people are no more than dogs living off the leftover food of their Iranian master!!!!!!

  eh fi3lan elli isstahou meittou!!!!!

• 33. ja3far | October 20th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

  Rima… if you are an example of al hadarah… sahtain 3ala albeik,,, i dont want it…

• 34. danny | October 20th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

  Sammy,

  My comment was simple. I have not commented on your post….My comment was simple STOP PLAGIARISING!!You are trying to portray yourself as someone who is “peaceful(salam) and knowledgeable…Yet you steal from others and pass it on as yours. I understand you; since you seem to be devoid of logic! I am not calling you names! Just calling a spade a spade!
  It is civil practice that you put in the link and then express your opinion. There is infinite bits of info out there…To verify “your” info; which most likely would come from Persian sources…

  However, it has become a pain to read your drivel as I am scrolling down.
  It seems you have some “opinions” not supported by facts and some of the visitors take you as an expert and communicate with you. That’s their free decision.

  My point is AGAIN: Do not plagiarise….unless you have no scruples.

• 35. ja3far | October 20th, 2008 at 2:58 pm

  danny… was the link you found one for a persian source ?:) ..
  As you said.. there is a plenty of information in the web… we all try to read through them and deduct… i have never claimed that i have invented the wheel…

  Again… no need for either of us to be agressive or to use names that shows immaturity…am peaceful when needed, and i have carried a gun when it was needed…

  for the moment you want to share something with me or to get my attention to a certain point that i dont know about ( and the things i dont know are much more then the things i claim to know.. ) then be as my friend delta advised me once.. civilised…

  salam

• 36. Michele | October 20th, 2008 at 3:33 pm

  OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Arze is back!!!!!

• 37. Michele | October 20th, 2008 at 3:57 pm

  Rima #31, u r so cute n funny

• 38. Michele | October 20th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

  sorry Rima i meant #32, anyway all ur comments r cute n funny!!!

• 39. Rima | October 20th, 2008 at 11:42 pm

  Hi Michele

  Thank you my friend

• 40. Patrick | October 21st, 2008 at 12:32 am

  ja3far,

  if american businesses get the contracts in iraq for various projects instead of saudi or french companies, for example, it is our right since it was AMERICA who did all the work. but you shouldn’t care about that, since so far the american government has been paying for those contracts, not the iraqi government which, as i said, has an $80 BILLION surplus.

  with the help of europe and/or the arab nations, iraq could be thriving already. but europe and the arab nations refused and left america to do it alone. idhan we insist on american businesses getting the contracts, not french or saudi companies. if a particular contract was awarded to a french or saudi company instead, would you accuse france or saudi arabia in the same way? companies are there to make money, sure, but what is the problem with that? iraq benefits at the same time, and iraqi partners for foreign contractors are built up along the way. the end result is that iraqi and foreign businesses both make money, the iraqi government makes money from taxing both, plus taxing exports, iraqi institutions and the iraqi economy are built up, there are more jobs in iraq, etc. what is the problem??

  believe me, the president didn’t invade iraq and spend trillions (with a T) of american dollars just so a few of his business buddies could make a few billions (with a B). however, as long as we’re there, and as long as america’s doing all the work, i see no problem in the president insisting that contracts are awarded to american companies (as opposed to french or saudi or whatever). moreover, as long as contracts are going to american companies, why not give a few of those contracts to business friends. i’m against those sort of handouts becoming overly commonplace and generally prefer bidding on contracts to save the american government money, but honestly any president in the world would do the same thing on some level, so i don’t make a big issue about that. and anyway, that is an american concern as i mentioned, not an iraqi concern, since american tax payers are paying those american companies, not the iraqi government. the iraqi government has an $80 BILLION surplus (yes, there is a good chance i’m going to say this a few more times…).

  so forgive me if i don’t see your logic. you think if you just write a long enough response and throw up some numbers that people will be impressed. maybe they will, but anyone who takes the time to sit there and read what you wrote, then read what i wrote, i think will be able to see things clearly.

  even if u believe only something dramatic could change america’s foreign policy with regard to the middle east, then why don’t you see 9/11 as the thing that changed it? the administration has been clear. in different ways, the administration has repeatedly said “in terms of american foreign policy in the middle east, there is a before-9/11 and an after-9/11.” on 9/11 we saw the result of abandoning the afghan people in the 80s after helping them kick out the soviets. suddenly an entire population, which was more than 50% under the age of 14, uneducated, illiterate, traumatized, poor, incapable of building up the nation on their own, jihad-ized, weapon-ized and left in the hands of the only people will real power… the so-called mujahideen and their weapons.

  therefore even if u don’t believe we are doing what we are doing for purely because we are good and we want to do something for the iraqi people and that’s it, then don’t. i never asked you to that. but at least believe… that we believe… it’s in america’s national security interest to have democracy and freedom spread in the arab world. america finally woke up and decided that’s it, something has to change in the middle east. status quo isn’t good enough, it’s just making things worse. i just hope that we don’t elect obama and lose the progress we’ve made.

  at this point you usually return to your point about the reason for the invasion. well i don’t think the administration lied to the american people, but of course they exaggerated it, and i don’t blame them. this is not a monarchy where u can just pick up and go to war. you have to get the congress on board, which means you have to get the people on board. so sure there was a difference in the ultimate reason we went to war and the reason we used in order to say we need to go to war with iraq specifically. after 9/11, we invaded afghanistan, but if the muslim world is going to change, it needs to come in the arab world. so we needed to strike at an arab country, and it needed to be large and influential. the bad luck fell with iraq, and that point forward is history.

  as far as islamic history is concerned, if you prefer stories from alkafi, or from alistibsaar, altahzeeb and mun la yahduru7u alfaqeeh–instead of bukhari or muslim–i mean, you have read the history, right? do you honestly think shia stories are any better? if you are shi3a, then i encourage you to read the shi3a books before concluding that they make muhammed look any better than he looks in the sunni books.

  also, i invite you to be my brother, but i think this is only possible if you find new leadership under men like iraqi MP iyad jamal al-din (إياد جمال الدين) from nasiriya. i wish there were more like him. as a christian, i’m telling you i would die to protect this man.

  you can see one of his interviews here:

  part 1
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuGVHDkIVEA

  part 2
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGJTOrDMDzY

  part 3
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9xeFUWg8vg

  part 4
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO7aDDJBABs

  part 5
  (?)

  part 6
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sKQu9far0A

• 41. Cartman | October 21st, 2008 at 1:12 am

  Michele and Rima…
  for the first time ever i agree with you, when you are trying to distance yourself from being arab,
  you are absolutely right, you are not an arab…you are a shitty mix of different shitty races, and most lebanese are, and ironically you are proud of it,
  a pure breed dog cost thousands of dollars, because pure breed tends to turn healthier, kinder, smarter, and better looking. mixed dogs or stray dogs are worthless street dogs like your case.
  take it as philosophy and not an insult, that’s why lebanese like yourself always thinks that the grass is greener on the neighbor’s side, mixed dogs/people have identity crisis, and they don’t have a specific home/homeland they love or respect, that’s why lebneni is all over Gods planet and is not satisfied any where, your genes deep inside are telling you that you belong every where yet you don’t fit any where. for you the west and westerner is and will always be better, and again i agree with you they are better than 7adret janebek w janeba, because they are pure and u are a mess.

• 42. Rima | October 21st, 2008 at 1:37 am

  Cartman
  Leik shou hal mouhadara bi 3ilim el ajneiss!!!!! Can you please provide me with scientific references to your genius analysis?
  You are so funny…talking like Hitler about pure race!!!!

  Anyway, I did say that I respect the Arabs of the old days during the abassiya khilafa…
  The truth is the Arabs, the turks and the Iranians are all drowning in their own sh****t. Dictatorships degrade and alienate people because they are built on favouritism, injustice and inequity…human beings cannot flourish in such an unhealthy environment…therefore they become backward societies i.e. cleaning parsley in the toilet sink in a Sydney park!!!!!

  This does not mean that the West is better…as Jubran Khalil Jubran said the West and the East are worse than each other…But at least the west has freedom and respect for the human being…
  We are scattered all over the world coz we are ambitious people and most importantly we are sick of Arabs(before) and Iranians(now) using us as a sword in the heart of Israel…The Arabs used the kaddiyeh falastiniyeh to appease their people and turn their anger against Israel instaed of their own corrupt regime…Similarly, Iranians are now using the same kaddiyeh falastiniyeh to build their nuclear hegemony ala dahrna we dahr el shiaa bi lebnein….
  Shou feheimet hala2 wala ba3ad!!!

• 43. Michele | October 21st, 2008 at 6:52 am

  ken ba3d na’ess Cartman! lol

• 44. Michele | October 21st, 2008 at 8:28 am

  Rima why do u even bother to explain ur view to Cartman, keeping in mind ur reply was excellent?

  As u noticed he didn’t read well both our comments,; he was simply looking for any excuse to spit his venom.

  U did actually express ur admiration to the culture n history of ancient Arabs n I said that i’m proud of my real ancestors who were the pheniciens who were here long before the arabs.
  Now i’m not discrediting the achievement of the”old” Arabs but I think we Lebanese should not forget who we are descendant from.

  Anyway, nowadays who really wants to be an Arab???
  Cartman maybe (he does actually fit the profile)

• 45. ja3far | October 21st, 2008 at 7:10 pm

  Patrick… thank you for your comment , it is always a great value to communicate with someone of such a calibre…

  we can keep debating about the reasons why the states went into iraque… i believe the article at the following link do give a moderate study of the different possible reasons
  http://iraquna2.blogspot.com/2005/06/why-did-america-invade-iraq.html..
  at the end, it is actions and future which will show….

  moreover, a good logic by Jim Holt at the following link
  http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n20/holt01_.html
  can give a good discussion related to the situation of the states in iraq at the moment..

  however, regardless of all the above, when the states invaded iraque, i was a very happy person… It is simple, I really hated sadam… honestly, i would be very happy if iraq and our region are given a fair chance… I don’t have problems with fair relation with the states as I do have business relationship with companies in the states
  and europe ( even though i always avoid traveling to the states and prefair going to europe and the far east ).. so i will be more then happy for the businesses in iraq.. if ever they become a win win relationship..

  regarding the religious part.. during the periode when the shias were surpressed and followed, books like al kafi were written in a try to collect anything to avoid loosing the shias philosophy. it will not be very smart to read through them to understand the way shia think…

  to understand the way shia sees muhamed you have to read the books written by their philosophers.. one of them is khomini through his spiritual books…
  shias have lot in commun with suffies.. both see muhamed in a very spirutual way.. reading some poems of rumi can give u a hint.. I can discuss that in more details if u are interested…

  salam

• 46. Cartman | October 22nd, 2008 at 12:30 am

  Rima and Michele again…
  i am not looking for excuse to spit my venom, but when u say stuff like “The truth is the Arabs, the turks and the Iranians are all drowning in their own sh****t.” and u don’t mention the Lebanese sh*t, now that’s pure ignorance to me.

  societies are built like pyramids, from the ground up and bad leaders come from infested societies. you don’t throw trash out of your car window or set a cat on fire or destroy a phone booth or “wash parsley in the bathroom” because your leader is a dictator or because you are a backward iranian or arab or turkish or christian or muslim,
  look around in lebanon, from environmental abuse to animal cruelty to the inhumane treatment of house maids down to not respecting traffic laws,and you’ll see that lebanese society has it’s share of being backward, and please for once don’t draw a sectarian line here because you know damn well that it’s a lebanese issue as a whole nation and not derzi or shi3i or maroni.
  so..there is alot to clean in our own backyard before we can criticize anybody.

• 47. Patrick | October 23rd, 2008 at 6:07 am

  ja3far,

  thank for your moderate tone as always.

  in the end, you are willing to give america the benefit of the doubt and allow the future to be the judge. i can respect that.

  regarding shia belief, i can only look to khomeini for the belief of khomeinist shia. however, khomeini would like me to believe that all shia are khomeinists, and i reject that. it is not true in the slightest, not in lebanon, not in iraq and not even in iran.

  one of the principle reasons for the shi3a rejection of abu bakr was that after muhammed, who all muslims see as infallible, abu bakr took upon himself all the authority of muhammed as if he were infallible also. the many shi3a i have met who are against khomeini say, “if i am shi3a, and the shi3a were against abu bakr for assuming he was infallible as muhammed, and believing himself to have the same authority as muhammed, then how could i ever accept khomeini, even though he is shi3a, since he is guilty of the same thing as abu bakr–thinking he is infallible like the prophet, assuming that he has the same authority as the prophet? la yumkin.”

  what do you think of this statement?

• 48. Patrick | October 23rd, 2008 at 6:09 am

  i forgot to add: personally, i think there is a world of difference between sufi, who are very peaceful and have a beautiful culture, and the predominant shi3a doctrine and culture, and by that i am referring to the khomeinists.

• 49. ja3far | October 23rd, 2008 at 4:07 pm

  Patrick… impressive knowledge as always, but no body is perfect
  Actually, the shia sees Mohamed as infallible person, while the sunnies sees him as infallible with things related to gods messages only.

  The shias groups differentiate between each others regarding the authority of the Faquih, as he is not infallible himself and this is one of the things many shia philosophers disagree in with khomeni. But this is a long subject which we can go through later. Our previous discussion was about the way Mohamed is seen.

  I mentioned khomeni, because he himself comes from the same school as Rumi and Sader al motaaliheen al shirazi when it comes to Orfan…as u remember I was talking about his spiritual books…am not sure if u can get access to some of his spiritual poems, or to books like al arba3oun Hadithan or al adab al ma3nawiya lil salat.. then you will understand what I mean by my comparison between Sufism and shia…

  You know , religions are all about the best way to reach god and filling your heart with his love…god don’t look at names of religions , he looks at our hearts and acts…sects like wahabis in al sunnies took the dry part of it, a motawa3e in Saudi will take someone to jail if he don’t see him praying… the sufies went completely to the opposite, the person should leave everything in earth and try to take the way to reach god…shia combine both, we are very peaceful people if not attacked, but we do have to take our responsibility in the earth as god gave humans responsibilities, in the same way we have to work hard to open our heart removing any distraction then god and reach him… Sufis consider Ali to be the great master of sufism… he followed the steps of mohamed

  salam

• 50. Rima | October 23rd, 2008 at 4:23 pm

  Cartman

  Sure after years of active and dormant wars what do you expect from Lebanon… In fact, we are drowning in the Arabo-Iranian-american Sh******t right now…As long as HA is expanding its power in Lebanon I don’t see any future for Lebanon.(To be fair we have our own issues without HA..now with HA the issue is very hopless)
  I don’t even know which Lebanon are we talking about…every one has his own lebanon and perception about lebanon…? If not for the Lebanese cuisine I can barely see similarities among different factions in Lebanon…We are victims of our regional surrounding, of the cold war…most importantly of our own incompetencies of our shortsightedness…Finally, we are a failed state because there is no way we can mix democracy with theocracy…
  Cheers

• 51. Patrick | October 24th, 2008 at 5:09 am

  Ja3far,

  you said, religion is “all about the best way to reach god and filling your heart with his love.”

  could you please forward this message ila akhiwaanak fi hizballah waljumhuriya alislamiya, min fadlak pleeeeeease.

  i don’t think they got that memo.

  regards,

  - Patrick

• 52. ja3far | October 24th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

  Patrick .. HA know that memo very well…
  it is the real of love of god which will push you to sucrifice any type of selfishness and stand against killers, agressors and invadors to protect your country, family and beloved ones…

  salam

• 53. Patrick | October 24th, 2008 at 8:24 pm

  ja3far,

  you said, religion is “all about the best way to reach god and filling your heart with his love” and “hezbollah knows [this] very well.”

  is that why the so-called hezbollah launched a site in hebrew so they could parade the body parts of the fallen jews on the internet? is that how they show the world god’s love, and show themselves to be filled with god’s love?

  is that why the so-called hezbollah took over beirut and murdered their muslim brothers, and their lebanese brothers in general? is that how they show their brothers god’s love?

  is that why the so-called hezbollah launches wars at the expense of the name of muhammed, the name of islam, the name of the arabs, the name of lebanon, the lives of so many lebanese and their families and friends, the economy, the peace between the sects, and the presence of the christians in lebanon? is that how they fill their hearts with god’s love?

  is that why they are training and preparing daily to war with their fellow lebanese and take over the country?

  i have just two things to say this time.

  first: by god, it is not god’s love they are filling their hearts with, but with the lies and the hatred of satan. and they may see their acts as successes in this life (in their eyes), but they and especially their twisted leaders will pay for it dearly in on the last day. my advice to you is not to follow them. theirs is the path that leads to the gates of hell, from which their is no escape. in the new testament, paul says of the jews, “Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them [i.e., the Jews] is for (their) salvation. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.” as a christian, i could say the same thing today of the muslims (and of many “christians,” it’s true). but i say it especially of “brooding vipers” like hassan nasrallah. my heart’s desire and my prayer for him and those who he has infected with his rhetoric is for their salvation. for i bear them witness that they have a zeal for god, but not in accordance with knowledge.

  second: i invite you to read the gospel (ie, matthew, mark, luke and john) and find out what the love of god really looks like.

  sincerely,

  - Patrick

• 54. ja3far | October 24th, 2008 at 9:29 pm

  Patrick
  Don’t worry, wherever you are, in a church, a musque, synagogues, or a cave , if your heart is really seeking the way to find god, god will go in. these things, and names will just hold you down when you are walking in the real path…

  We don’t have anything against the jews … we believe that we pray for the same god… it is Israel that we have problem with…

  You are concerned about the website parading the pictures of Israeli soldiers…
  I remember crying like an little child for hours while watching the little children in quana turned into pieces in 1996..
  I remember in 1978 when our family house in tyr was destroyed by the F16 war planes.
  I remember in 1982,as a little child, how scared I was when we were running away to Beirut while the F16 were burning 10s of cars in al damour.
  i remember how the building of my uncle was burned in saida with 70 people dying in the shelter when the F16 throw a heavy missile on it.
  I remember living a month of hell in Beirut as the Israeli killing machines were surrounding it and bombarding it.
  I remember seeing my cousins taken to Israeli prisons in Ansar with another 60 thousands Lebanese around the period of occupation…
  I remember that a good part of my country was occupied for 22 years.
  I remember the face and the wounds in the heart of lot of my friends who couldn’t go back to their homes and lands in the occupied territory .
  I remember that there was a united nations resolution of a number 425 calling for the Israeli withdrawal of my country… I remember that no one cared about this resolution.
  I understand very well that in such a case god ask us to help these people and to defend our country… it is good to pray for him to help us… but he ask us to do such a job ourselves…
  I knew few men who died fighting Israel to liberate our country… I know the love for god they had in their heart.. I know how much they suffered while seeing the innocent people tortured under the Israeli occupation…
  I know how proud and happy we were to see the Israelis getting out of our country in year 2000.
  I know very well that the Israelis were preparing since that time to take revenge…
  I remember very well how criminal they were in attacking my country in year 2006 … I remember rice pushing them to continue their massacres for 33 days..
  I know that they are threatening to do that again …
  Should we make them think 100s of time before doing that? You are a smart person, other wise you wouldn’t be working in your present position ..
  We do pray day and night for god to protect our heroes , the HA. If nassrallah decide to put down his weapons we will be the first to stone him…

  we know very well, Israel knows very well that if ever they dare to attack us again… we will see how fast we will send them to hell this time…

  salam

• 55. Patrick | October 25th, 2008 at 11:53 am

  Ja3far,

  i respect the fact that these things are not just facts on a page for you, but are reality for you and so many others, but all what you said about israel can be said by anyone in any war regarding the army of the opposite side.

  that said, i have never regarded the jews as angels. but a long time ago, god established a covenant with the jews which he said was “eternal.” i don’t know what your definition of eternal is, but to me eternal means eternal. therefore, i have some advice for you: be careful to fight against the jews, or you may find yourself fighting against god himself.

  the promise of god to jacob (to whom god gave the “israel”) is “i will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you.” clearly, god has kept his promise to israel:

  when pharaoh threatened the jews in egypt, his army was swallowed up by the red sea.

  when haman threatened the jews in persia, he and his sons hung from the gallows which he had built and intended for mordechai.

  the canaanites were destroyed.

  the (ancient, non-arab) filastines were destroyed.

  the assyrians were defeated.

  the babylonians were defeated.

  the greeks were defeated.

  the roman empire, which destroyed the temple, is no more.

  the palestinians of the 20th century were defeated.

  the british were defeated.

  hitler was defeated.

  the arabs were defeated. great example: the six days war. *six days.* sort of like the story of joshua’s siege of jericho don’t you think?

  in the bible, god promises to scatter the jewish people all over the world and in the last days to bring them back together again to jerusalem from all over the world. and no one can deny he has done and is doing that. and they are stronger today than they ever were in facing any of the above enemies, all of whom attacked the jews, and all of whom were defeated and destroyed.

  bottom line: the jews aren’t perfect, but f***ing with israel is a bad path to take.

  please make sure hezbollah gets this memo in addition to the last one…

• 56. ja3far | October 25th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

  Patrick… I told u before and I say it again, we don’t have any problem with the jews… our problem is with Israel and Zionism…

  Still, let me explain to you our point of view regarding the jews. Jews are given as an example in the quran for those people who were chosen by god, who were given everything and still they have disobeyed god and killed most of their prophets, ending by Jesus…

  They were warned and punished by god again and again and again hoping they will take back the right path…some have taken, others still haven’t…

  Israel is an example of the jews who insist on disobeying god… have you seen the picture of the Israeli children writing their best wishes on the bombs sent to kill Lebanese children ? Is that what the bible teach us?

  A good part of the quran was written in a way to tell the reader to learn the lesson from the jews.. the quran was warning the arabs not to think they are the chosen ones and to sin the same way the jews did.. otherwise they will suffer the same way the jews did…
  Most of The arabs followed the steps of the jews; they did everything that god has forbidden them to do.. .the only think they are stuck to is the name of the religion.. the same way lot of jews and Christians do. for that they are paying.

  Patrick, with the start of Christianity, religion has shifted from being something directed to a special chosen group to a light spread over the whole humanity…it is not the race or the name of religion, we claim to follow, that will make god look at us and cover us with his mercy. It is the way we behave toward other humans and humanity…

  For the last 60 years , Israelis have chosen to do everything god has forbidden them to do. They have chosen to follow the path of pharaoh and haman, of the canaanites, assyrians and babylonians and not the path of gods prophets… for that they are doomed… for that they will pay…

  It will be through the hands of those who really love god and who god really love them !

  that god have promised.. that we shall see… ala ina al sobha li kareeb!

  salam

• 57. Patrick | October 25th, 2008 at 9:45 pm

  Ja3far,

  i will respond point by point.

  1) zionism is jewish nationalism. there is nothing inherently wrong with that. god gave the land to their fathers, and the same god who scattered the jews from this land is the same god who promised to (and did) bring them back to it. that is why ikrima sabri and the rest of the palestinian leadership do their best to deny that the jews ever had any history in the land whatsoever. (they even go so far as to deny there was ever a jewish temple in jerusalem, all because they know the truth about whose land it is, but they hate the jews.) the land belongs to the sons of those who were scattered from it, the sons of those to whom god gave the land, not to the sons of the conquering muslim armies, or the sons of 19th and 20th century immigrants from the arab states. now israelis are mostly the sons of russian jews, or yemeni jews, or french jews, or from wherever, it’s true. but ultimately they are sons of those who were scattered from israel by the romans almost 2,000 years ago. but how about the palestinians? a few are the sons of the muslim armies from more than a thousand years ago, and most are the sons of 19th and 20th century immigrants, just like the jews, from egypt or jordan or lebanon or syria or morocco or wherever. but i don’t care to debate about this. god gave the land to the jews, not to the arabs, or the english, or the chinese.

  2) even for us, the example of the jews in the old testament is an example for us. but unlike you, we recognize that all humans are sinful, not just the jews, and that people like you and i are just as quick to turn our hearts from god as the jews were. but god is just as quick to forgive us if we return to him as the jews did. but my point was regarding the covenant god made with the jews. the qur’an says god revoked his covenant because the jews broke it. but in the torah god says the covenant is eternal, and history has shown this to be true. god has always saved a remnant for himself, or else turned the hearts of the people towards him again. this happened when they worshiped the golden calf, when they worshiped baal, etc. in the case of the golden calf, for example, all the people led by moses worshiped the calf, but they soon returned to worship of the one true god. in the case of baal, the prophet elijah called out to god about how he alone remained true to the faith, but god answers him, “no, but behold, i have saved for myself 7,000 who have not bowed the knee to baal.” and it is true even in the case of the crucifixion of jesus. jesus was a jew, his family were jews, his disciples were jews, his followers were jews, his cousin the prophet john the baptist was a jew, john’s family and disciples and followers were jews, influential priests on the sanhedrin like nicodemus and joseph of arimathea were jews, and during the years after jesus’ ascension, thousands more jews came to believe in jesus, including the people of jerusalem and many of the priests of the sanhedrin. but besides this, jesus prayed on the cross, “father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” jesus’ prayer for the jews is very different from the condemnation of the jews i hear in the mosques. there is no denying this. also, even in jesus’ time there were men who did not believe jesus was the messiah but who were still regarded as righteous, even by the apostles, and gamaliel the grandson of hillel is probably the best example of this. don’t forget that god promised to bring the jews back to this land, and that’s exactly what he did.

  3) the jews were chosen by god, there is nothing wrong with recognizing that. the problem is only when someone lets this go to their head and pushes them to worship the nation rather than worshiping god. (but this is no different than some people whose goal in the hajj is merely the ka’aba and not the lord.) i agree that this is a problem among many in israel even today, but there is nothing, not even this, that will stand between god’s hand of protection and israel. it is not because of israel’s righteousness that god protects them, i agree. it’s because of god’s promise to them, and god is not a liar.

  4) for us, the “grafting in” of people of “every tongue, tribe and nation” in christ does not cancel the eternal covenant god made with the jews.

  5) no. the path of the pharaoh, haman, the canaanites, the assyrians, the babylonians, the greeks, the romans, etc. is of attacking israel, and this is the path the muslims have chosen to take. if they keep following it, as they did in 1948 and 1967, they will reach the same destination.

  6) i’ve seen the same videos as anyone else about the settlers’ treatment of palestinians, of jewish children painting on missiles, of IDF checkpoints, of the assault on gaza, etc. but look to how the palestinians blow themselves up in crowded pizza places, look at the graffiti they put everywhere about knocking on the gates of heaven with the skulls of jews and how they thirst for jewish blood and their greatest hope is to die while killing as many jews as possible. and look to the two soldiers they killed in ramallah; how they didn’t just kill them, but how they ripped their guts out, carved the bodies up, then dragged the bodies through the streets of ramallah with the entire population participating in the demonstration, and then strung the bodies up from their feet.

  are these the hands of love you were talking about? the hands of god’s love that are going to defeat the jews? spare me the rhetoric.

  peace.

• 58. ja3far | October 25th, 2008 at 11:46 pm

  patrick my friend… if you want to talk history, you should get the historian informations and not political ones .. any
  way , you know very well that i agree with some of what you wrote and disagree with others.. i will try to give my feed back tomorrow… but i have a few hotter questions for you…some economical ones

  how do you see this economical crises going? do you think the states was consuming the world reserves in a very greedy way? do you think the petrodollar connection instead of gold dollar connection has led the american to become consumers instead of producers.. and finally, dont you think that by pulling back the american investments abroad the way it is done now you are destroying the economy of their main allies ?

  salam

• 59. Patrick | October 26th, 2008 at 2:47 am

  to answer your question about american greed: no, what the american economy is experiencing now is a result of the (failed) socialist policies of FNMA and FHLC with regard to the housing sector, which had a ripple effect on our economy, and then on the world. however, i’m not worried about the economy, and i would prefer to stay on subject.

  in your eyes, hamas and hezbollah are filled with god’s love. yet they rip the guts out of bodies and drag them through the streets, make war on their own brothers, etc. as long as you continue to believe that animals like that are filled with god’s love, i don’t think this exchange is going anywhere, and i think we’re done til next time.

  peace.

• 60. ja3far | October 26th, 2008 at 11:30 am

  Patrick… I know how the israelies try to market the history of the area, I have read netanyahou book; such a logic may work in Europe or the states were people are not so familiar with the history of our region.

  honestly, I am little surprised that you are trying to promote such a logic with middle eastern people. Palestine contained both moslims and christinas and jews. It is not for the political Israeli leaders to describe the history of the region… you can easily look at the French transcripts talking about Napoleon invasion to the area; his path in cities like Ghaza, Haifa and his defeat in Akka to know that there were real cities with people living in it…moreover, it is not for either of us to talk about the history of jerusalim and Beit lahem … the real issue is the debate about god promises.

  If you go back to my previous comment, you will read that I mentioned that the Arabs took the same path god warned them to take .. and for that they are paying. So I am not sure why you get that we think that only jewish are sinful.

  I know very well that Jesus was jew… but you said it yourself, lot of the jewish people converted to Christianity…and may be to islam later on … what would that make them?

  Our religion teach us that only the commends and words of god can change existing words and commends of god . at a certain stage in history , almost all god s prophets were directed toward the jewish people. In that they were the chosen people for god. With Christianity and islam this have changed… islam tell us that there is no diference between races for god .. that we are all equal in front of him … it is our love for him and our obedience that make the difference. Not our race. This is the god I am happy and proud to worship and to pray for him…

  looking at the life of the way the Palestinians have been living for the last 60 years, I cannot blame them for anything. Honestly speaking, my father was assassinated in 1981 in a bomb in his car, there was a great probability that this was done through the Palestinians militias in Lebanon at that time… but my heart don’t contain any haltered for them… I just feel sorry and bad about the so called humanity who is accepting that humans are still suppressed and treated in such a way in the 21 century…

  Finally, the same way the jewish were promised that they will return to Israel in al taorah, we were promised that they return in al quran… with one addition.. “”:to meet their destiny…”” and when I talked about the people who love god and god love them.. I wasn’t talking about the Palestinians and hamass,,, ina ghadan linazirihi kareeb

  salam

• 61. Patrick | October 27th, 2008 at 11:26 am

  as you said, islam says that the jews will return to the land, they will be led by a jew who is the antichrist, and the muslim nations around them will make war on them and defeat them.

  whereas the bible says that the jews will return to the land, they will be led by JESUS, the surrounding nations (which are now muslim) will make war on them, and israel will defeat their armies by the grace of god.

  so, put your faith in muhammed as you like. but consider the possibility that you’re following the wrong book.

• 62. ja3far | October 27th, 2008 at 11:53 am

  Actually patrick, shias say jesus will come to join the grand sun of muhamed to bring together the great peace and justice to the earth…

  salam

• 63. Patrick | October 27th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

  maybe i wasn’t very clear.

  the jew who saves israel is jesus, and the jew who leads the muslim armies against israel is the antichrist.

  in other words, islam has it backwards. the one you believe is ad-dajal is actually jesus, and the one you believe is jesus is ad-dajal.

• 64. Patrick | October 27th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

  and your mehdi is the false prophet.

• 65. ja3far | October 27th, 2008 at 12:34 pm

  patrick , shias believe the main battel will be against so called muslims ; who been manupulating our religion for the last 1500 years…
  one last thing, god judge people depending on their hearts and actions.. not their DNA ( even though arabs and jews have the same DNA as they are cousins) … i believe every surprussor will be punished by god .. whether he claim to be jewish, christian or muslim…
  the israelies have been very bad.. saddam and lot of muslims been, bush was too…, i do trust god and his judgement…

  salam

• 66. Patrick | October 27th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

  ja3far,

  it is well known that even shi3a believe there will be a war against israel, as you mentioned in a previous post about what, in your view, will happen to the jews after they return to the land of their fathers.

  i’m just encouraging you to consider the possibility that you’re following the wrong book, which you are.

  i never said the jews were all righteous. if they were all righteous, the bible would say that all of them will follow jesus when he comes again, but in fact only a remnant will follow him (as before in the days of the prophet Elijah), and the majority will be deceived by the antichrist.

  but i DID say god is on their side, regardless of how righteous or unrighteous they are as a people, just as he has *always* been on their side, regardless of how righteous or unrighteous they were. 1948 and 1967 are the proof that this is true even in our day. moreover, even righteous leaders sometimes commit crimes for which they ask god’s forgiveness. king david slaughtered 5,000, but god forgave him. godwilling, he has forgiven sharon also, who as a whole was a great man.

  and don’t compare bush to saddam. saddam is in hell for what he did. bush, praise god, is a good man.

  he doesn’t take the pieces of the bodies of his enemies and parade them on the internet and the tv like nasrallah. he doesn’t have hatred in his heart for muslims like nasrallah has for jews.

  peace.

• 67. ja3far | October 27th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

  patrick … of course we will have a war against israel …as long as they are surpressures , as long as they insist on following the path of evil they are doomed…

  at the end your opinion is clear to me, but neither of us is god to decide who will be close to him in eternity and who will not be…

  finally, in the other world, may god join you to bush, sharon, and these politicians you love; and may he join me to nassrallah and those who i love…

  salam

• 68. Patrick | October 27th, 2008 at 6:56 pm

  this is your way of saying ‘i pray you will be in hell.’ i guess you say that because you are filled with the love of god, like our friend, nasrallah.

  as for me, jesus tells me to pray for my enemies and bless them. so, god bless you, and i pray he opens your heart one day so you can be with me in paradise.

  as for sharon, i cannot be sure that god has forgiven him, since he did not accept christ. as peter said, “there is only one name under heaven by which men must be saved–jesus christ.”

  this will be my last post on this subject.

• 69. ja3far | October 27th, 2008 at 7:05 pm

  Actually Patrick, that was my say to warn you who you should love and follow… because god will put us with the people we followed through our life in eternity…
  i am walking in this path because i believe it will lead me to god. if i am really honest , serious and dedicated in my walk… i believe that god is so merciful.. he wil not let me down..
  i really hope you have such a dedication and honesty in your heart ..in such a case god will not let you down…
  one last thing… we see and love god through our heart not our DNA …

  salam

• 70. Patrick | October 27th, 2008 at 10:30 pm

  Unlike you, I don’t believe that as long as you are sincere that God will be merciful. And actually, Islam does not teach that either, so I don’t know how you can say, “i really hope you have such a dedication and honesty in your heart ..in such a case god will not let you down…”

  Who we follow matters. these guys ripping the guts out of people and then shouting allahu akbar are the wrong guys, ja3far. so the warning is for you, not for me.

• 71. ja3far | October 27th, 2008 at 11:40 pm

  patrick… i dont know how much you do understand arabic as i find it difficult sometimes to find the right words..i am trying

  I don’t know what islam you have studied and your judging because there is so many as you know;

  but we have a saying that the number of roads that leads to god are as numerous as the number of humans….

  you are telling me to read the bible .. i have studied for 14 years in a christian school …in lebanon i had the chance to live religions. in the source..
  ..
  i know very well that all type of religions were used for power and control.. mainly by people who claim to be the most religious .. in the name of god the most destructive wars happened in humanity…

  you know jewish says you have to be jew to go to heaven, Christians and muslims say the same… god don’t belong to anybody… god say you have to come to me with a pure heart…

  you know , every time I pray, I start by saying in the name of god the merciful.. sometimes when I think how much god is being soooo good to me regardless of my sins I start crying and praying thanking him because he gave me such a great happiness of existing and the opportunity to try to know him…

  honestly my friend, the god I pray for is the god who say there is no difference between color and race what make the diference is your work to get to me…

  you know , sometimes things can be clear… I know your information about us come through intelligent reports and very dry material.. honestly, from what you read I don’t blame you to hate nassrallah.. but what I know is different from what you know.. from what I know , I can honestly pray for god asking him to let me join him wherever he is in the other world…

  I was reading your comments earlier about sharoon and bush and how special these people are… from the information you have about them… you may pray god to forgive them, but can you pray honestly to god asking him to join either of them in eternity?

  salam

• 72. Patrick | October 28th, 2008 at 10:25 am

  you can speak arabic with me, it’s fine. if it’s something you think might be hard for me to understand, write it in the arabic script so i can be sure i’m reading it right.

  also, unless you have met nasrallah, then my information on him is just as good as yours. he speaks very clearly. it is from his own words and actions that i’m against him, not from what people here write.

  his hatred for the jews, his jihadist ideology, his desire to reduce the christians to dhimmis, his desire to take over the country, his willingness to fight his own brothers in islam, etc. and a thousand other reasons.

• 73. ja3far | October 28th, 2008 at 4:40 pm

  patrick… you didnt answer a very simple question…
  you know the main diference between us is that you are a typical follower like most of the people; while i am not. please dont take this as an insult.. it is not… i believe that god gave us a mind , and we will be asked depending on our knowledge and IQ.

  honestly speaking, the typical religion is the one which was dominated by religious institutions and kings and governments over a long periode of year. it is the religion karl marx said about it one day it is the drug of people. it is the religion jews , christians and muslims were used in the name of god.

  honestly speaking, i believe that religion was sent by god to make the kingdom of god on earth. sadly , few are working for that.

  i believe that the american government is surpressing people around the world, is destroying the earth, is steeling all our reserves . i believe they are doing everything god forbided us to do.

  i believe that sharon is a war criminal; he killed tens of thousands of innocent people in 1982 . you want to call it another army vision, it is up to you.. we will meet in the judgement day.

  look patrick, there is right and there is wrong. you work to improve the image of the american government abroad, good for you. you are an educated person and i respect that. but if you want to talk god and religion that is a different story.

  your government is EVIL. hundreds of millions of people were killed through history in africa asia and america in the name of religion. this is evil , this is wrong.

  the god you are telling me that will support criminals like the israelies , just because they are jewish, i dont want him you can keep him for you, please dont pray for him to forgive me. my believes in god are diferent and for that god i pray.

  what do you know about nassrallah? hating jews , christians, muslims, is that really what they taught u or you are trying to convince me of something?
  nassrallah have did everything god asked us to do, he have stood against agressors and evils, he have helped poor and innocent people ; he had devoted or his life for god and the love of god… and i know very well that such a man will be honored by god to be killed on the same hand that killed the prophets of god…

  for you .. i hope you will be able to see one day… but believe me .. real vision is through heart not through eye.. and it is reached only through gods mercy on us

  salam

• 74. Patrick | October 28th, 2008 at 8:42 pm

  “patrick… you didnt answer a very simple question…”

  which question?

  “you are a typical follower like most of the people”

  who am i following? as i said, i watch nasrallah for myself.

  “i believe that religion was sent by god to make the kingdom of god on earth. sadly , few are working for that.”

  you use more ostensibly “christian” vocabulary than any other muslim i know. “the love of god,” “the kingdom of god,” etc. but no matter how much you try to talk to christians using language that appeals to us, in the end you are still advocating an islamic jihadist ideology which we reject. it is sad for me to hear someone talk about people (hezbollah) who parade the body parts of their enemies on the internet and say that these people are “filled with god’s love.” you can talk about “god’s love” and “the kingdom of god” and use other christian catch phrases if you like, but it is clear what your true beliefs are. i think this is just taqiyya on your part.

  “i believe that the american government is surpressing people around the world, is destroying the earth, is steeling all our reserves . i believe they are doing everything god forbided us to do.”

  you are going off on a tagent, and not even providing examples. if you want to make an example of iraq, what resources did we steal? iraq has an $80 billion SURPLUS. and how about suppression? the only people who oppose us in iran are your boys in jaysh almehdi, badr, IRG, etc. ie, people who think like iran. in other words, people who do not believe in true freedom, as evidenced by the recent law in iran mandating death for apostates. whereas the u.s. wants to give people all the same freedoms we have. i don’t see that as suppression, and neither do the majority of of iraqis (or afghans, for that matter).

  “i believe that sharon is a war criminal; he killed tens of thousands of innocent people in 1982.”

  king david committed similar crimes, but god forgave him and he is recognized as a great leader in all three religions. you want a real war criminal, look at muhammed and ali.

  “your government is EVIL. hundreds of millions of people were killed through history in africa asia and america in the name of religion. this is evil , this is wrong.”

  first, there is not a single crime the american government which can be tied to religion, as the american government is SECULAR. second, i’m not sure specifically what you’re referring to. in asia? in america? the only one you might have a point with is africa, if you are referring to the slave trade, something which is long behind us. as GAME said in his new song “my life” with lil wayne (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyb6dkLxE58), “and fuck jesse jackson, ’cause it ain’t about race now…” i’m sure you know about white/black race relations in america more than game? ya OK.

  “the god you are telling me that will support criminals like the israelies , just because they are jewish, i dont want him you can keep him for you, please dont pray for him to forgive me. my believes in god are diferent and for that god i pray.”

  first, both pray to the god of abraham, and there are not two gods of abraham, but ONE god of abraham. so its not about which god, it’s about who is distorting the image of the one god. and i didn’t say “because they are jewish”–i said “because god established a covenant with israel which god said is an ‘eternal’ covenant, which he calls the promise of god, and god is not a liar. please don’t distort my words.

  “what do you know about nassrallah? hating jews , christians, muslims, is that really what they taught u or you are trying to convince me of something? :)”

  first you engage in taqiyya, now you engage in kitman. bravo.

  “nassrallah have did everything god asked us to do, he have stood against agressors and evils, he have helped poor and innocent people ; he had devoted or his life for god and the love of god… and i know very well that such a man will be honored by god to be killed on the same hand that killed the prophets of god…”

  don’t forget that he fought his fellow lebanese and fellow muslims in may, and he promises that this is only a “taste” of what is to come. also, it is undeniable that his ultimate goal is an islamic (specifically shi3a, tab3an) lebanon, regardless of what he says about pluralism in lebanon. (consequently, this leaves no doubt with me about his true goals in waging war, given massive christian emigration each time.) finally, let’s not forget his hatred of the jews, in word (e.g., “the jew is filth–notice i said the jew, not the zionist”) and in deed (e.g., hezbollah’s hebrew website displaying the body parts of fallen israelis).

  “for you .. i hope you will be able to see one day… but believe me .. real vision is through heart not through eye.. and it is reached only through gods mercy on us”

  by the grace of the lord jesus christ, i am already in the light, and i can see the picture just fine, thank you.

  salam

• 75. Patrick | October 28th, 2008 at 8:44 pm

  in iraq*

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